Author Topic: War diaries help needed - George Church  (Read 3049 times)

Offline Churchie

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War diaries help needed - George Church
« on: Monday 27 April 15 06:39 BST (UK) »
My Grandfather George Church - regimental number 179846 Royal Field Artillery was in France from 30/5/17 till 24/9/18 when he was evacuated after being gassed.
I had hoped to find his regimental war diary on line, but have come unstuck, as I can't interpret the information in his records.
I definitely have Royal Field Artillery, and some very sketchy handwriting that looks like:
D/4 R.Bde
13th Reserves Batt
and 3rd Reserves
Here's his casualty form - can anybody help me with all the abbreviations?

Many thanks,
Caroline.
Church, Ciaccia, Mann, Butfoy, Boutefoy, Hulbert, Allar, Furneaux, Tylee, Carruthers - London.
Close, Davies, Thomas, Isaac, Williams - Carmarthenshire, Glamorganshire, Monmouthshire.


Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline newburychap

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Re: War diaries help needed - George Church
« Reply #1 on: Monday 27 April 15 09:36 BST (UK) »
I can't see anything on that form which would point at a meaingful war diary. The only overseas posting given is the RH&RF Base Depot - to which all RHA & RFA men would be sent for onward posting to units in the field.  You need to know which unit(s) he served with at the front in order to find their war diary.
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Offline Churchie

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Re: War diaries help needed - George Church
« Reply #2 on: Monday 27 April 15 10:29 BST (UK) »
That's what I'm trying to find out. I'm not sure how to interpret the records - I don't know what the abbreviations mean.
I have a full set of records, but obviously am not allowed to post them all on here, but here are two more. It's easy to find his record set based on the information I've given.

Caroline.
Church, Ciaccia, Mann, Butfoy, Boutefoy, Hulbert, Allar, Furneaux, Tylee, Carruthers - London.
Close, Davies, Thomas, Isaac, Williams - Carmarthenshire, Glamorganshire, Monmouthshire.


Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline DavidGreenall110

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Re: War diaries help needed - George Church
« Reply #3 on: Monday 11 May 15 23:40 BST (UK) »
Looking at the Enlistment Papers on that well known site, it looks like he was possibly with 162nd Brigade RFA, 33rd Division. I've had a look and there doesn't seem to be a diary for them available to view for that date

He was probably wounded during one of the battles of the Lys.

You could try posting your query on another forum, possibly the Great War Forum, there are a few resident Artillery experts active on there.

David
Death, Sambles, Searle, Loates, Beamish, Brooks, Bates, Coates, Hughes, Lythgoe, Johnson, Rodgers, Hawthorne, Rhodes, Lister, Sneyd


Offline Churchie

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Re: War diaries help needed - George Church
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 12 May 15 00:10 BST (UK) »
Thank you David, I appreciate your help. I will give it a try and report back if successful.
It would have been great to know what happened to the poor fellow.

Caroline.
Church, Ciaccia, Mann, Butfoy, Boutefoy, Hulbert, Allar, Furneaux, Tylee, Carruthers - London.
Close, Davies, Thomas, Isaac, Williams - Carmarthenshire, Glamorganshire, Monmouthshire.


Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline newburychap

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Re: War diaries help needed - George Church
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 12 May 15 02:09 BST (UK) »
I agree with 162 Brigade RFA - joined them in the field on 7 Nov 1917.  Got leave to UK in Feb 1918 and was gassed - admitted to Field Ambulance on 19 Sep 1918.

This was during the 100 days - when the British were advancing all along the front so the date is no help in determining where he was. But the war diary gives details http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353802 or on Ancestry.

They were at Troisvilles - near Le Cateau, the BEF were revisiting old ground. The 33 Division would cross the Selle a few days after he was gassed.

They were firing gas on 17 Sep, it is possible that it was British gas that got him!

There is no entry for 18 or 19 Sep - but it does record 2 men 'Wounded (gas)' during the month. The diary is very uncommunicative in terms of day to day casualties/enemy action - apart from the monthly casualty list you'd think they were only attacked once that month (on 10th).
Latest project - www.westberkshirewarmemorials.org.uk
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Offline Churchie

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Re: War diaries help needed - George Church
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 12 May 15 10:40 BST (UK) »
Thank you both so very much for pointing me in the right direction, as I didn't know where to start, or how to interpret the information that I had.

It'll take me a while to read through the diary, though I have already looked at the places you mentioned, thanks to the wonder of Google earth.
I know I'm lucky to have the records for George, but I still know so little about his service, or about how he ended up dying so young, and every little bit makes me greedy for more!

Thanks again,
Caroline.
Church, Ciaccia, Mann, Butfoy, Boutefoy, Hulbert, Allar, Furneaux, Tylee, Carruthers - London.
Close, Davies, Thomas, Isaac, Williams - Carmarthenshire, Glamorganshire, Monmouthshire.


Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline DavidGreenall110

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Re: War diaries help needed - George Church
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 12 May 15 10:49 BST (UK) »
Caroline,

That's no problem glad to be able to help.

If he'd been gassed the chances are it would have been in some way linked to that. Most probably respitory problems if you have his death certificate it may mention it on there.

Regards

David
Death, Sambles, Searle, Loates, Beamish, Brooks, Bates, Coates, Hughes, Lythgoe, Johnson, Rodgers, Hawthorne, Rhodes, Lister, Sneyd

Offline Churchie

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Re: War diaries help needed - George Church
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 19 May 15 10:22 BST (UK) »
I still need help...feel like a right fool.

Hello Newburychap, I searched for, and found RFA, 33 Division of 162 Brigade (well, I think so) but it seems to have totally different entries to those you have quoted. I'm not sure where I'm going wrong. I'm using Ancestry, but it appears to be the same record set as the link to that on the National Archives site?

David, yes you are right, poor George died of lung cancer. My aunt was taken to visit him in hospital, but my father and uncle were considered too naughty and were left at home, so they remembered nothing of it - probably a mercy, as he died in terrible pain.

I did interpret a little more of the original records, and found he had been admitted to the St Louis Hospital Base 21 unit in Rouen, which was interesting - there is a marvellous website about it, with a good image gallery. Might be old news to you, but here's the link:
http://beckerexhibits.wustl.edu/gh21/ww1/

Caroline.
Church, Ciaccia, Mann, Butfoy, Boutefoy, Hulbert, Allar, Furneaux, Tylee, Carruthers - London.
Close, Davies, Thomas, Isaac, Williams - Carmarthenshire, Glamorganshire, Monmouthshire.


Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk