Author Topic: Hacket, Jamieson, Geddes in Forglen  (Read 7162 times)

Offline Fordyce

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Hacket, Jamieson, Geddes in Forglen
« on: Monday 27 April 15 23:56 BST (UK) »
Looking for any firm info on the parentage of the husband and wives in the following two marriage events. I believe there's a case for the husbands James Geddes to be one and the same person.

1st:
1 Jan 1803: James Geddes in Forglen marr Janet Hacket in Banff (recorded in Forglen & Banff)
No further sightings, except for:-
31 Aug 1804: dau Jean Geddes born in Kebholes, Forglen
26 Jan 1828 dau Jean Geddes, at Burnside Forglen, marries William Jamieson in Nether Crannabog Forglen.
The couple stay in Crannabog Forglen for life. Jamiesons tenanted Crannabog for many years.
When Jean Geddes dies in 1871, her son records her parents as James Geddes farmer & ---- Halket, which suggests mother Hacket died early on and father Geddes survived.

2nd:
5 Feb 1825 James Geddes in Forglen marr Margaret Jamieson in Alvah  (recorded in Forglen & Alvah)
No further sightings.

Two possibles for Janet Hacket are:
bpt 21 Jan 1774 Fordyce (b Reidstack) to James Hacket & Janet Dick
bpt 17 Aug 1780 Fordyce (b Rumblingpots) to Alexander Hacket & Agnes Gray

Two possibles for Margaret Jamieson are:
bpt 30-6-1772 Alvah to George Jamieson & Mary Robertson
bpt 17-11-1790 Alvah to William Jamieson & Jean Andrew
 (indeed, a James Andrew, b Alvah, age 47/58 was at Kebholes in 1841/1851)

Kebholes and Crannabog were part of the Mountblairy Estate, and Crannabog at least became part of the Forglen Estate, owned by Sir George Abercromby who also owned the Birkenbog Estate in Fordyce. My Geddes folks were established tenants on several farms on the Birkenbog Estate for very many years, a James Geddes being tenant at New Park in 1777.

The New Park James Geddes is a mystery. He's probably the father of illeg Alexander Geddes (b 1786/87 no record), but otherwise he completely disappears. There was a massive upheaval due to the 'famine years' in the 1780s so it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that this James Geddes moved away (like his brother Peter Geddes and his wife and family who also seemingly completely disappear after 1785), only to turn up in Forglen. Perhaps his improvement of New Park failed (the hint that it was unimproved land is in the name - in 1777 all but 3 acres was 'new land' - next door Breach was occupied by 'Sundries' at the time so wasn't even the farm it eventually became).

It's plausible but I need more than that!

Offline Br1gau

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Re: Hacket, Jamieson, Geddes in Forglen
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 28 April 15 20:34 BST (UK) »
Hello Fordyce,

Can’t answer your questions directly, I’m afraid, but wondered if you’ve looked at the ANESFHS site.  There are quite a few Geddes & Jamieson records that may help sort out your family groups.  This one may or may not be relevant.

Kirkyard of Inverkeithny – stone: 214   
William Jamieson 28 Apr 1859
   John Jamieson    19 Apr 1867
   Jane Geddes    22 Jul 1871
   Jane Jamieson    21 Dec 1920
   George Jamieson n.d.
   James Jamieson    n.d.
   William Jamieson n.d.
   Andrew Jamieson n.d.
http://www.anesfhs.org.uk/databank/miindex/miindex.php

Also, from SP Wills:
JAMIESON WILLIAM 14/03/1862 FARMER AT LOWER CRANNABOG / BANFF SHERIFF COURT SC2/40/19 (3 pages)

Offline Fordyce

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Re: Hacket, Jamieson, Geddes in Forglen
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 29 April 15 12:31 BST (UK) »
Thanks for replying, Br1gau. That Will is nearly three years after his death - that's quite a delay but I cannot see that being significant.

Unfortunately it does appear the family had partially forgotten their mother's parentage.

I believe I've got all the info there is about her and her parents from all the resources I know of.

With so little to go on, it's no more than speculation that James Geddes' Margaret Jamieson is connected to the Crannabog Jamiesons; that Janet Hacket is related to the Fordyce Hackets; that James Geddes came from Fordyce. So, here's hoping for something perhaps from the Hacket (or Halket) angle - e.g. is someone wondering what happened to their Janet Hacket?!

Offline Tom Wright

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Re: Hacket, Jamieson, Geddes in Forglen
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 13 December 18 18:33 GMT (UK) »
I may have a family connection to the Lower Crannabog farm as my 2x Great grandfather, John Wright b 1850 in Marnoch, is listed on the 1861 census as living there.  John Wright is age 11 at that time and it seems like there should be a family connection to James Jamieson (listed as Head of Household) for someone so young to be living with another family.  Any comments would be appreciated.

Tom Wright
Wright, Banffshire
Simpson, Banffshire
Donald,  Aberdeenshire
Hume, Aberdeenshire


Offline Fordyce

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Re: Hacket, Jamieson, Geddes in Forglen
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 16 December 18 19:37 GMT (UK) »
Hullo Tom,

I see that your John Wright at Lower Crannabog in 1861 age 11 and a scholar has his relationship to head of household James Jamieson recorded as being a servant. I don't see it as being particularly unusual him being a servant at age 11 but it is odd that he's also noted as a scholar. Looking at the actual census entry, I feel that him being a servant is an error in the census, the people preceding and following obviously being servants, and they being the '2 men and 1 girl' employed by the farmer James Jamieson. So, we cannot tell his real relationship from the census.

But I also see John Wright's baptism details say that he was brn 28-11-1850 bpt 21-4-1851 Marnoch natural son of John Wright "now in 12th Batn. Royal Artillery" & Isabella Simpson; registered 29 Dec 1855.

And the 1851 census shows John Wright age 4m at Castlehill in Marnoch, obviously with his mother Isabella Simpson. That Simpson family was in Castlehill for many years - Isabella herself was born there in 1827. Castlehill is east of Aberchirder towards Carnousie. The Crannabogs and Kebholes are a mile or so due north. I guess Lower Crannabog is on the OS map as Nether Crannabog.

I suspect father John Wright disappeared off the scene - do you know more on him? The National Archives at Kew should have a good deal more on John Wright's military service. Maybe there are regimental records that might identify him.

For sure, mother Isabella Simpson married George Chalmers 21 Feb 1852, and perhaps (I've seen this before) the new husband didn't welcome the presence of his stepson John Wright, this explaining why John Wright is not with his mother in 1861.  Isabella Simpson & George Chalmers had five children, some of whom can be found in later years scattered around Banffshire and Aberdeenshire, but the parents seem to have evaded the censuses, in particular and annoyingly the 1861 census.

Isabel Simpson died 3 Feb 1873 age 44 in Aberchirder, a pauper albeit recorded as still married to George Chalmers a labourer - the inspector of poor was her informant. It looks as though the family had split up and she had been left to fend for herself.

So, in that context, the question is why was John Wright at Lower Crannabog in 1861?  If he wasn't a servant working on the land, was he a boarder, a visitor or had he been taken in and was being brought up by Jane Geddes?

As far as I can tell, this Simpson family as a whole is unrelated to the Geddes/Jamieson family in Lower Crannabog. It's unlikely that John Wright was simply taken in by them out of the goodness of their hearts, and if he makes no reference to him being brought up in that family, then perhaps he wasn't adopted by them either. That leaves him being a (paying) temporary boarder - supporting the notion that the family was in bits.

In the course of gathering these comments, I discovered that James Geddes in Kebholes witnessed the baptism of Andrew Geddes s/o John Geddes in Brigshillock, Alvah & Mary Morison on 17 Nov 1825, and thus probably Andrew's brother James in 1822. The same James Geddes in Kebholes witnessed on 5 Mar 1834 Jane Geddes' son James in Nether Crannabog Forglen (thus the witness was the child's grandfather). That John Geddes in Brigshillock was in Slains, Abn when he married and had their first child Ann. This combination shows that Brigshillock's John and Kebholes' James are likely to be brothers, likely to have been born in Slains or thereabouts, and thus not related to 'my' James Geddes of my original post - though I need to mull that one over.

The Slains' Ann Geddes married George Simpson; they became tenants in Brigshillock and this is where one of your Chalmers was in 1881. At present, I still don't think this George Simpson is connected to your Isabella Simpson, but maybe you have more on the Simpson side.

Think that's enough to chew over! How does any of the above fit in with what you know about your Simpsons and Wrights?



Offline Forfarian

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Re: Hacket, Jamieson, Geddes in Forglen
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 16 December 18 22:41 GMT (UK) »
It looks as if it might be worth a look in the parochial board records in Forglen and Marnoch to see if perhaps the parish was paying for John Wright to board with the Jamieson family. Also to see what they say about Isabel Simpson. That's assuming of course that the relevant records have survived. If they have they should be in Aberdeen Archives https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/services/libraries-and-archives/aberdeen-city-and-aberdeenshire-archives
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Tom Wright

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Re: Hacket, Jamieson, Geddes in Forglen
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 18 December 18 17:59 GMT (UK) »
Hello Fordyce & Forfarian,

Thank you for all the information on my John Wright and family! 

A little background on my great-grandfather, John Wright b1850 Marnoch. He immigrated to the USA in 1872, first to Wisconsin and finally settling in Minnesota to raise his family of 5 children.  He married in 1877 to Annie Donald, b 1854 Chapel of Garioch, Aberdeenshire. Although they did not marry in Scotland, I find them in the 1871 census on the same farm both listed as servants (East Fingask, Daviot, Arberdeenshire).  Both died relatively young, John at age 50 and Annie at age 35, and thus our family has "lost" the family history of their life in Scotland.

I have seen John Wright's baptism document and 1851 & 1861 census record but did not have the marriage record of Isabella Simpson (John Wright's mother) to George Chalmers.  You mentioned there were 5 children from that marriage.  Do you have their names and birth dates?  One of the family stories is that John immigrated with one of his brothers (half brother if it was one of these children) but they had a falling out and never stayed in touch after immigrating. 

I'm still trying to find information on my John Wright's father (also named John Wright) who is listed on the baptism record as with the 12th Batt. Royal Artillery in 1855.  This was during the Crimean War and my research shows 4 people with that name and in the 12th battalion (2 of them were killed).  I need to see if i can find more details on these people to see if one is the correct one. You suggested the National Archives at Kew.  I'm in the USA so I will see if I can research those records on-line.

Thank you for all the information. My brother, me and our wives are planning a trip to Scotland the summer of 2019 so I'm researching this with the hope to visit the areas where our family resided.  I continue to build our Scotland family tree as I find new information. 

Regards,
Tom Wright
Wright, Banffshire
Simpson, Banffshire
Donald,  Aberdeenshire
Hume, Aberdeenshire

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Hacket, Jamieson, Geddes in Forglen
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 18 December 18 21:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi Tom

As you say, there are a number of possible John Wright that might fit with the 12 Battalion RA ref. I saw this entry and noted place of birth as perhaps relevant http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13215433

Age is close to Isabella Simpson. Enlistment year is given as 1853. Did he show as a soldier in the 1850 and 1851 Parish Register entries or the belated entry in 1855?

Other John Wrights connected to the 12 Battalion include:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13200009
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13200104
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13199982

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Hacket, Jamieson, Geddes in Forglen
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 18 December 18 21:40 GMT (UK) »
Some details on George Chalmers and Isabella Simpson:

http://decfam.tripod.com/i0000051.htm

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk