Author Topic: Emma Twist (or Aston) Birmingham - 1841 census please  (Read 3697 times)

Offline LaytonLily

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Emma Twist (or Aston) Birmingham - 1841 census please
« on: Thursday 30 April 15 11:48 BST (UK) »
Can anyone please find Emma Twist (she was Aston) B: 1813 - 1817 Birmingham please on 1841 census.  A birth entry would be a big bonus as well !    She is on 1851 census with her 'husband' Joseph (but I don't think they were married) and the children at Sherlock Street.  They had John (c1837) and William (c1839 - my direct ancestor) by 1841. 

However I find Joseph with his family in 1841 (Parents Joseph and Lucy Twist) - so what was going on there ?    It looks as if Joseph was just 16yrs when their first child John was born, going on ages given elsewhere.
 
I haven't been able to find the birth of John or William, although I have sent for birth certificates of probably ones found on BMD but non with mother Emma.

Emma's father was William Aston.    And I would love to find him as well !    He was given as next of kin on Emma's death certificate in 1859, that is why I presume Joseph and Emma were not married, because Joseph was still alive then.

Thank you for all the great help given on this site.
ASTON, Birmingham : TWIST, B.ham: HUNT, B.ham: LAYTON, Worcestershire: LAYTON, B.ham: BISHOP, Leic.: TYSALL, B.ham: BURLEY,B.ham: SCOTT,B.ham: FISHER, B.ham : PRICHARD,Wales: BEARD,Worc. : SCHREDER, USA

Offline Milliepede

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Re: Emma Twist (or Aston) Birmingham - 1841 census please
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 30 April 15 13:41 BST (UK) »
I expect you've seen this one in St Georges Birmingham 1841

Emma Twist 23 (could be 28)
Elizabeth 4 months

There's quite a gap between John & William and the younger children in 1851 so I wonder if they all had the same mother/father or it was a different combination if you know what I mean!
Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
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Offline Milliepede

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Re: Emma Twist (or Aston) Birmingham - 1841 census please
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 30 April 15 13:47 BST (UK) »
You've done this birth I suspect - who was the mother?  Did he have the right father Joseph?
If so then could it be Joseph had a previous marriage/relationship?

Sep 1839
William Twist
Birmingham
16 305
Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
Burroughs - Arlingham Glos
Pick - Frocester Glos

Offline Milliepede

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Re: Emma Twist (or Aston) Birmingham - 1841 census please
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 30 April 15 14:01 BST (UK) »
Quote
Emma's father was William Aston.    And I would love to find him as well !    He was given as next of kin on Emma's death certificate in 1859, that is why I presume Joseph and Emma were not married, because Joseph was still alive then.

That's interesting do you mean he was the informant on her death?  The only one I can find old enough in 1841 (to be her father) had passed away before 1859  :(

Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
Burroughs - Arlingham Glos
Pick - Frocester Glos


Offline LaytonLily

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Re: Emma Twist (or Aston) Birmingham - 1841 census please
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 30 April 15 15:01 BST (UK) »
Well, there are so many complicated 'tales' in this Twist / Aston history!    Starting with the discovery some years ago that my gg.grandfather (the William Twist) changed his name from Twist to Aston for reasons of bigamy I think !  It seems he took his mother's father's name and used him as his father on the marriage certificate to my gg.grandmother.   That is why I believed Emma was William's mother.
 
I have checked a number of  birth entries for William Twist around 1839, writing to B.ham Registrar, but none have given Emma as the mother.  I had never noticed the age gap on the 1851 census between the children, so something went on there it seems.   I did look under John and William Aston, in case they had her name, but nothing seems to be right.

William Aston, Emma's father could have been dead by 1859, as it was not always entered was it.
I give here the details as typed up in my file for the death of Emma : 

It was discovered that Emma had two consecutive death certificates issued in 1859. This is unique because the first is usually struck through with 'this is superseded by' or it is deleted. On the second certificate Emma is registered with her father, William Aston, water carrier, as next of kin and given with her maiden name as Emma Aston. The first certificate gives her name as Emma Twist and her next of kin is given as Joseph Twist, horse dealer. After discussions with the Superintendent Registrar it was felt that the most likely explanation is that Emma and Joseph were not married. 'Ann Clark', who's name appears on both certificates as the informant, registered Emma as Joseph's wife and afterwards realised it could be seen as illegal and went back and re-registered her, giving her father as next of kin instead.


ASTON, Birmingham : TWIST, B.ham: HUNT, B.ham: LAYTON, Worcestershire: LAYTON, B.ham: BISHOP, Leic.: TYSALL, B.ham: BURLEY,B.ham: SCOTT,B.ham: FISHER, B.ham : PRICHARD,Wales: BEARD,Worc. : SCHREDER, USA

Offline avm228

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Re: Emma Twist (or Aston) Birmingham - 1841 census please
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 30 April 15 15:17 BST (UK) »
Sadly there is no birthplace given for any of the Twist family in the 1851 census - since Emma died in 1859 (so doesn't appear in 1861), I wonder what's the source for her having been born in Birmingham?

Do you have "Aston" as her maiden name from any other source than the rather curious-sounding death certificate (e.g. from a birth certificate for one of the younger children)?  Death certificates can be unreliable as the information is only ever as good as the knowledge of the informant.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Milliepede

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Re: Emma Twist (or Aston) Birmingham - 1841 census please
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 30 April 15 21:49 BST (UK) »
Quote
I have checked a number of  birth entries for William Twist around 1839, writing to B.ham Registrar, but none have given Emma as the mother.

Sorry to ask again but did any have the right father Joseph?

I don't understand the next of kin statement as have never seen that on a death certificate before ??? 
I thought there was just an informant which in this case that was Ann Clark so it does sound an odd one!
Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
Burroughs - Arlingham Glos
Pick - Frocester Glos

Offline groom

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Re: Emma Twist (or Aston) Birmingham - 1841 census please
« Reply #7 on: Friday 01 May 15 00:08 BST (UK) »
Quote
I don't understand the next of kin statement as have never seen that on a death certificate before ??? 
I thought there was just an informant which in this case that was Ann Clark so it does sound an odd one!

I was about to ask that as well. Where was it stated, as there is no column for next of kin?
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Offline LaytonLily

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Re: Emma Twist (or Aston) Birmingham - 1841 census please
« Reply #8 on: Friday 01 May 15 09:04 BST (UK) »
The birth certificates I have applied for did not have Emma as mother or Joseph as father.

My sister got involved in this Twist research some years ago and paid a researcher who supplied some of the information, including the odd story of the death certificates for Emma.  It is only now that I have taken it up again, because previously I was not altogether happy with the information and had not been able to verify the details , starting with the name change from Twist to Aston.  But have decided what details I can accept and started to work from there.

I do not have the copy of Emma's death certificate to hand - my Twist file has gone to the person who takes the genealogy class I attend, so she can cast an unbiased and impartial eye over my information.

I have the typed details  :  14 December 1859 at Longmore Street   Emma ASTON 46yrs   Daughter of William Aston a Water Carrier.   Died of Consumption.
The mark of Ann Clark present at the death, Belgrave Street.


I have been able to obtain the birth certificate of their son Joseph Twist  -  8th January 1849
12 Smithfield.   F: Joseph Twist, Horse Dealer.   M: Emma Twist, formerly Aston
ASTON, Birmingham : TWIST, B.ham: HUNT, B.ham: LAYTON, Worcestershire: LAYTON, B.ham: BISHOP, Leic.: TYSALL, B.ham: BURLEY,B.ham: SCOTT,B.ham: FISHER, B.ham : PRICHARD,Wales: BEARD,Worc. : SCHREDER, USA