Author Topic: Charles Allum b.1875 circa - Possible Traveller/Gypsy Heritage?  (Read 4833 times)

Offline amondg

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Re: Charles Allum b.1875 circa - Possible Traveller/Gypsy Heritage?
« Reply #9 on: Friday 22 April 16 07:40 BST (UK) »
If the 1891 census Norwich Norfolk found by Kay99 is your family, they had 3 children baptized at St James Pockthorpe Norwich.

Parents Charles Allum and Sophia

Alfred bap 21 July 1887, born 8 June 1887, address Black Boys Yard, father Hawker
Frederick bap 21 July 1887 born28 October 1882,  same address, same occupation
Arthur Bap 8 October 1889 born 9 September 1889, address 2 Phoenix Yard, father umbrella mender

If Charles was born Cambridge per census although he grew up in Norwich and thought he was born there, Ref: a registration for a Charles Allum 1873 in New Market on Freebmd.

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Offline trish1120

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Re: Charles Allum b.1875 circa - Possible Traveller/Gypsy Heritage?
« Reply #10 on: Friday 22 April 16 16:39 BST (UK) »
BAPTISM;
St Nicholas, East Dereham, Norfolk
MARY ANNE Allum, 1 April 1877, Parents Charles/Sophia, Father a Hawker
(Source FreeREG)

MARRIAGE;
12 February 1872, St Nicholas, East Dereham, Norfolk
Charles ALLUM, Bachelor, Labourer, Father JOHN Allum, Labourer
Sophia LINES, Spinster, no Father noted
Witnesses, William Lines/Bridget Lines
The groom signed and the bride made a mark. The witnesses made their marks
(FreeREG)

1901 Charles/Sophia are visiting in Woolpit, Suffolk;
John Howell, 30, Inn Keeper
Millicent Howell, 28
Thomas Hill, 35
Polly Hill, 27
Anna Hill, 3
Lizzie Hill, 1
Clement Goodrich, 45
Edgar Stearne, 50
Charles AlLLUM,50, Visitor, Mar, Hawker, born Ipswich, Suffolk****
Sophia Allum, 25, Visitor, Mar, Hawker, born Woodbridge, Suffolk****
Annie Allum, 6, Visitor, born Hastings, Sussex***
William Law, 45
Rebecca Law, 30
RG13/1760/137/14

Sophias age is hard to make out as there is a line through it but has been transcribed as 25


1851 Census
Ipswich, Suffolk
HO107/1799/25/17
John Allum, 24, Head, Mar, Marine Store Dealer, born Greenwich, Kent
Elizabeth Allum, 21, Wife, Mar, born Stow, Staffordshire
Samuel Allum, 5, Son, born Colchester, Essex
CHARLES Allum, 2, Son, born Ipswich***
William Allum, 4 Mths, Son, born Ipswich

1861 Elizabeth is in Colchester, Essex with the Children;
James Sibborn, 72
Elizabeth Allen, 33, Mar, Hawker, born Stone, Staffordshire
Samuel Allen, 15
CJARLES Allen, 12
William Allen, 10
Francis Allen, 8
John Allen, 5
Mary A Allen, 2

1871 back with John in Ore, Sussex;
John Allum, 44, Head, Mar, Labourer*
Elizabeth Allum, 42, Wife, Mar, Hawker of Flowers, born Stone, Staffordshire
John Allum, 17
Mary A Allum, 14
Albert Allum, 10
Anne Allum, 7
Elizabeth Allum, 5

1881 she is Widowed and still in Ore;
Elizabeth Allum, 51
Sarah Ann Allum, 19
Elizabeth Allum, 17
Betsy Allum, 12
Mary Ann Allum, 4

Trish :)

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Offline trish1120

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Re: Charles Allum b.1875 circa - Possible Traveller/Gypsy Heritage?
« Reply #11 on: Friday 22 April 16 17:06 BST (UK) »
1861 Census
Pound Lane,
Woodbridge, Suffolk
RG9/1170/44/12
Mary Ann LINES, 31, Head, Unm. Mat Maker
William Lines, 9
Lydia Lines, 7
SOPHIA Lines, 5****
All born Woodbridge

Cant find them in 1861 but there is a Death Reg for a Mary Ann Lines Reg Woodbridge 1862

So from Marriage 1872 Sophia doesnt name a Father.
Charles Allums Father is John, occp. Labourer, which fits with 1871 Census
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Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline trish1120

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Re: Charles Allum b.1875 circa - Possible Traveller/Gypsy Heritage?
« Reply #12 on: Friday 22 April 16 17:35 BST (UK) »
Possible Marriage Reg;
Dec 1844 Colchester, 12 135
John ALLUM, possible Spouses Elizabeth YOUNG or Elizabeth WRIGHT

F/S has a Elizabeth YOUNG Christened 27 January 1828, Stone, Stafford, England
Parents PETER/ANN

Looks good as in 1841 In St James, Colchesyer Borough, Essex we have;
Ann YOUNG, 45, Lodging Housekeeper
ELIZABETH Young, 14
+ several Lodgers
Both Ann/Elizabeth are NOT born in the County
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Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline schnortles

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Re: Charles Allum b.1875 circa - Possible Traveller/Gypsy Heritage?
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 09 August 17 18:44 BST (UK) »
Charles and Sophie's daughter Mary Ann Allum was buried at Redenhall Church on 14th February 1878 aged 11 months.  her abode was given as Harleston Common - almost certainly the 'lodging house for tramps' formed in the barns and stables of an old mill and operating there between the 1860s and mid 1890s.

Offline schnortles

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Re: Charles Allum b.1875 circa - Possible Traveller/Gypsy Heritage?
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 07 March 18 20:39 GMT (UK) »
Excerpt from a book I am writing about Halreston Common ps - have not looked into it but I think safe to assume thereis some link between this branch of Allums and the strdabroke allums who wind up down in Hastings too!

No pub existed on the actual Common but there was a lodging house between at least 1861 and 1891,which was used by the ‘lower class’ of passing trade. It is possible that a few of the ‘random’ registrations of ‘Harleston Common’ were from families passing through the lodging house.  For instance the death of 11 month old Mary Ann Allum on Valentine’s Day 1878 does not tie in with any local families I am aware of, instead I would suggest she is the Mary Ann baptised at St Nicholas in East Dereham on 1st April 1877, to parents Charles and Sophia Allum, father a hawker. These itinerate people tend to be difficult to track down; one likely candidate is Charles Allum, from Rutland, who first appears in 1861 with his wife Caroline at an Inn in Bethel St Norwich. By 1871, the still childless Caroline gives her trade as a milliner from Suffolk. A Charles Allum marries Sophia Lines in 1872  - if they are one and the same I wonder what happened to Caroline? 

Alternatively, Charles and Sophie Allum, may be the pair who appear amongst a total of 12 lodgers, as tinkers at a lodging house in Watton in 1881. This record seems a little arbitrary - husband and wife have both been given the age of 30, their place of birth is not known, four other residents don’t even have their names known - I suspect when the census taker appeared the lodging housekeeper had to rely on her memory and guesswork! With them they have a 2 year old and a 12 year old son - presumably the children in between met the same fate as Mary Ann three years previously - life on the road would be tough for the children.

By 1891, things are more settled. Charles Allum I, 10 years older than his 33 year old wife Sophie, is living with his family at Fullers Hole Norwich.   While the parents claim Ipswich birth, Charles II is 17 (not 22 as you might expect) but William’s age of 11 ties in with that given in ’81. Both the Charles I & II and Sophia are hawkers, the children being born in Cambridgeshire, Norwich, Suffolk and two more in Norwich.  Amazingly the family of seven, including a 6 month old baby are squeezed into two rooms, even more extraordinary, a couple of doors away the 10 strong Brown family are also in a 2 room dwelling!

In 1901, the couple are back on the road, appearing at The Crown in Woolpit, this time with just their 6 year old daughter Annie, born in Hastings, in tow.  By 1911, Annie is back in Hastings, with her aunt, Annie Gannon, hawking flowers.  Annie Gannon claims birth in Woodford Essex - may have been a confusion with ‘Woodbridge’ claimed by Sophia?  Just to add to the joy, William, the toddler who appeared in the ’81 census at Watton but now a rag and bone man, was the only prisoner languishing in the police cells in the Hastings Town Hall in 1911!  Meanwhile his father, Charles Allum I, now widowed, was one of 15 lodgers at a Common lodging house in the town - whilst the proprietors were British born, their names ‘Orsi’ and ‘Bassi’would indicate Italian origins. 

Charles II, a marine store dealer (glorified junk/scrap merchant) is also living in Hastings.  He has been busy, with his wife Elizabeth, they have produced 7 children, all alive for this census, their four room house might seem cramped to us but compared with the conditions that 17 year old Charles and his family were enduring in ’81, luxury! His son Alfred, aged 4 in this 1911 census turns out to be a bit of a pickle in his youth.  Alfred and a partner in crime (lads) were charged with stealing eight men’s Oxford shirts.   The boys had been to prison and it was decided that Allum was ‘fit for Borstal treatment’ whilst the other lad might do better if ‘put on probation under the Police Court Missionary’.  The difference in proposed treatment was due to Allum having several previous convictions against him (he was only 12) whilst the other lad had no record.  ‘Allum was committed to the Quarter Sessions, with a view to being put under the Borstal system’ whilst the other lad was given two years probation - oops!

Offline schnortles

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Re: Charles Allum b.1875 circa - Possible Traveller/Gypsy Heritage?
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 07 March 18 21:11 GMT (UK) »
Going back two generations -

 Charles Allum, father of your Charles Allum b 1875, aged 2, son of John and Elizabeth Allum appearing in Stoke St, Ipswich in 1851.  John is a marine store dealer - the sort of back ground a tinker/hawker might well come from.  Brothers William and Samuel also appear. By 1861, the family are in Magdalen St Colchester, father John is away, mother Elizabeth is a hawker, oldest son Samuel is a hawker, other siblings Charles, William, Frances, John and Mary are all scholars.

Hope that helps

Offline Amyblack

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Re: Charles Allum b.1875 circa - Possible Traveller/Gypsy Heritage?
« Reply #16 on: Friday 17 August 18 21:04 BST (UK) »
Hi sam
I have a few questions I think we’re looking for the same person if you could give me a call that would be lovely my name is Amy my number is (*) if you could call me that would be amazing many thanks

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