Henry ROBERT's parents

[Quarryman]

How do I find the parents of Henry Roberts, b circa 1768 and Mary Jones, born circa 1770, who were married in Llanllechidd in 1795. I cannot find his/her birth anywhere - FindMyPast, Family Search, Ancestry. His father (I believe) was Harry Jones (whose marriage in Llanbedr y Cennin I also can't find) but his grandfather was Robert Roberts. Could patronymics play a part here; could Henry taken his grandfather's forename as his surname? Am really getting bogged down in this, and need the help of Rootschat members with greater knowledge than mine.

[ColC]

I just wondered if you had considered these two Henry Roberts on FindMyPast?

Baptism  24 July 1767   BODFUAN Caernarvonshire
Parents    John  & Katherine

Baptism 25 Sep 1768   LLANBEBLIG, Caernarvonshire
Parents    William & Ellin

Several Mary Jones baptism’s also at Llanbeblig around 1770.

Colin

[Quarryman]

Hi kilwinning,

I had considered them - but as their birthplaces were so far from Llanbedr y Cennin and Llanllechidd, and because, as I understand it, movement of the population was almost non-existent in those days. I dismissed them. However, they bear taking another look at.

Thanks

Bradley

[100%Gog]

Hi

In my experience Welsh patronymics are a minefield, especially in North Wales where there where local variations of the theme.

My family has evidence of the grandchildren adopting the grandfather's surname so I don't think it was unusual.

To confuse things further families could also use a different surname (either patronymic or standard family name) in official documents compared to what they used in everyday situations. In some parts of North Wales this went further were by the child's surname will vary dependent on where they are in the the family e.g. eldest child takes the paternal surname, second child takes the maternal surname, third child takes paternal surname again etc or vice verse. A more detailed explanation can be found in the book "Welsh Genealogy" by Bruce Durie.

I agree with Bradley, Bodfuan and Llanbeblig may be a little too far. The Llanbedr Y Cennin and Llanllechid connection could be correct though as the old roman road over the mountains between Llanbedr y Cennin and Aber was the main transportation route before the coast road was put in and so many people traveled that route to the quarries of Llanllechid and surrounds.

100%Gog

[Quarryman]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your input. Another puzzle; as I have the marriage of Henry Roberts in 1795, but cannot find his birth (stupidly assuming that males got married around 26 and females 23) would I be wrong to assume (I know it is a no-no) that Henry Jones, born 1741 was the Henry Roberts who married in 1795 - at 54! - to Mary Jones - whose father may have been John, and whose birth I am still seeking.

My head hurts!

[100%Gog]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your input. Another puzzle; as I have the marriage of Henry Roberts in 1795, but cannot find his birth (stupidly assuming that males got married around 26 and females 23) would I be wrong to assume (I know it is a no-no) that Henry Jones, born 1741 was the Henry Roberts who married in 1795 - at 54! - to Mary Jones - whose father may have been John, and whose birth I am still seeking.

My head hurts!

It could be possible that your Harry Jones b.1741 could be the same man as the Henry Roberts m. 1795.

I have checked through the Llanbedr y Cennin PR and can find only one baptism entry for a Harry/Henry Jones/Roberts between 1740 & 1780.

Baptism: 03 December 1741
Father: Robert Jones
Mother: Elizabeth Parry

It is possible that Harry/Henry has taken the patronymic Roberts from his father. As far as being 54 when he married Mary Jones....Is Mary his second wife, does the marriage record mention he is widowed?

I have not found an earlier marriage for Harry/Henry in Llanbedr y Cennin but as marriages usually take place at the brides parish then that is not surprising. I have however found this:

Marriage: 29 September 1741 Llanbedr y Cennin, Caernarvonshire
Groom: Robert Jones of Llangernyw
Bride: Elizabeth Parry of Llanbedr

Gareth

[Quarryman]

Hi Gareth,

Thanks for the input. However, if you look closely at the original parish register entry for Robert Jones and Elizabeth Parry, the bride is not "of this parish" but from a place I deciphered as Llanboddy. Now trying to find out where this is.

Regardss

Bradley

[100%Gog]

Hi Bradley

Thanks for the reply. I see what you are saying about the Llanbedr/Llanboddy wording but I am still convinced its Llanbedr.

If you look at other marriage entries by the rector Hugh Jones, he has a habit of putting down both parishes of the bride and groom. The only time he appears to use "of this parish" is when both bride and groom come from Llanbedr.

If you also look at the "y" at the end of "Llanboddy" it is actually made up of the "t" in the date 29th on the next line of the entry. Taking that in to consideration it then looks much more like the other Llanbedr entries. It does not help that Rev. Jones had such scrawly writing.

I am not aware of a Llanboddy in Wales, the closest I can find is a Llanboidy but that is a very small village in Carmarthenshire SW Wales. I would be surprised if the bride came that far from home in the mid-1700's.

Just my thoughts, I hope they help.

Regards,
Gareth

[Quarryman]

Hi Gareth,

I am inclined to go with your thinking. Thanks.

Regards

Bradley