Carruth Brick Wall

[Johncarruth]

Can anyone help me to trace my Ancestor ,Alexander  Carruth, a Cooper by trade living on Causeyside in Paisley. He disappears from the records of Paisley & Scotland ,some  time between the birth of his daughter Christina in 1852 when he was aged about 31 years of age and the 1861 Census when his wife, Helen (or Ellen) is shown as Head of Household and Christina is not shown. Did he, like a lot of  Paisley working men, leave Paisley &Scotland to search for work in other Lands? Does anyone if there are any details listed of men who took ship from West of Scotland ports to Canada, U.S.A. or Australasia between 1852 and 1861 ?
I also have another Brick wall concerning Alexander Carruth which is that, the 1841  Census gives his age as  20, the same as his wife, but I can find no O.P.R entry for his birth around 1818/1822. There is a family in Paisley that may well be his parents (William & Agnes Carruth) but I cannot make the link without an O.P.R. birth entry showing his parents. Does anyone know of any missing Parish records for Paisley Abbey Ward for the period 1818/1822 ?

[MonicaL]

Hi John

Welcome to RootsChat 

First of all, the easy one! The 1841 census is the most limited in terms of information. The enumerators were instructed to record the ages of those over 15 years the nearest 5 years. Children under 15 years were supposed to show with their actual age. Overall, ages in 1841 are the most unrealiable overall (and census ages are a very often unreliable in general unfortunately).

A couple of other points to note from 1841, specific birth places were not noted. You were either born in the county the census was being recorded or you were not, in which case you simply showed as born outside of the County (specifically for Scottish births - Irish and English births would be recorded different, in general terms also).

The final point is that unlike later censuses too, relationships within the household were not shown/recorded.

Monica

[MonicaL]

Have you got Helen, his wife's maiden name?

How have you followed Helen and any children from their marriage?

The 1861 census that you mention, did Helen showed as married or widowed>

Monica 

[MonicaL]

Does anyone know of any missing Parish records for Paisley Abbey Ward for the period 1818/1822 ?

Before the start of official registration in Scotland from 1855, you are reliant on Old Parish Registers (Established Church of Scotland - Presbyterian) available on Scotlands People. Also now Roman Catholic Records that remain are available to view on the same site www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Be aware that only about a third of events were recorded pre 1855, for all sorts of reasons. Also, many registers have been lost or destroyed over time.

I cannot see any marriage/banns for Alexander and Helen, nor any children born to them using their names on https://familysearch.org/search. This may be indicative of problems find records for them pre 1855  There may, however, be entries showing on Scotlands People.

What do you have on any children or Helen?

Monica

[MonicaL]

You mentioned 1851 and the 1861 census. Just adding this for background:

1861:
Helen Carruth/ Smith 42 b. Paisley
John Carruth 17
Alexander Carruth 15
Christina Carruth 9....Christina is shown, you thought not?
Elizabeth Smith 71 mother b. Paisley
Catherine McAllum 20
Address: 62 Canal St, Paisley High Church

Monica

[Johncarruth]

Thank you for your help, Monika. I actually found the Baptism of Helen (a.k.a. Ellen & (later), Janet ?)in 1820, Thornleigh Park,Paisley. Her Maiden name was Smith and Smith was the common middle name for girls in the family for the next 3 generations. Her Mother was Elisabeth Smith and that name was also used as a first name for 3 generations, too. On the 1861 Census, Helen is shown with a W against her name, presumably Widow, but the Enumerator has also put a(almost vertical) cross through that as he has with a couple of other  such entries on that page. Helen died in 1897 & was buried in the family grave of her son(a couple of his children had died before her !)named as Janet  Smith, but the age,  matched exactly.
John.

[Johncarruth]

Hi Monika. I found their marriage Banns(from Scotlands People)&confirmed marriage,at the Independent church? at an early stage of my research & thought that that was a good start but then   I hit the brick wall(No parents shown, on the Banns.) John.

[MonicaL]

Hi John

...confirmed marriage,at the Independent church?

I have seen a reference to the Scots Old Independent Church in Paisley. May this is the ref you have there on the banns?

I hit the brick wall(No parents shown, on the Banns.) John.

Apart from the fact it seems to be from what you say a Banns entry rather that the marriage entry on the OPRs, not sure you would get any extra info.

Before the start of official registration in Scotland from 1855, if you are lucky to find a marriage entry in the OPRs, the best it can normally be is at most the name of the bride's father. Mostly, it will be a simple one liner with name of groom and bride 

Have you found any christening entries for the children? Sometimes you get clues to possible family names from the names of the sponsors.

Also, did Helen show as married or widowed in 1861? Did she die in Scotland? If so what did it say re parents and husband Alexander?

Monica

[Johncarruth]

Thanks again, Monica. Good idea about looking at the Baptisms of the children to see if they give any other info. I will try to find them on Scotlands people !I will try to get the Baptism of my Great Grandpa, John.(Helens first Son).
I got the parents of Helen ,as  her Baptism came up easily, for some reason.
Thanks again. John