Women In Griffiths Valuation

[ColinUSA]

Hello,
I am wondering if a woman would be listed in Griffiths if her husband was alive and well. Anybody know a specific example?
Thanks,
Colin Ferguson

[taramcdsmall]

As far as I am aware Griffiths Valuation was a list of those responsible for paying the rates on a piece of land or building.

This is why rural labourers or the working classes in cities typically don't appear.

Given the times this was usually the Head of Family, most of times being the male.

I can't say I've come across the 'wife' being the one paying the rates if her husband was 'alive and well' although I'm sure there are exceptions.

Was she a business woman in her own right ?

Do you want to give us your example to see if we can help ?

Tara

[ColinUSA]

Hi Tara,
Thanks for offer. My problem is a convoluted mix of John and Margaret Fergusons.

A Margaret Ferguson appears in Griffiths Valuations 1857 as both an occupier and immediate lessor at map reference 10 in Tullyboy, Kilbride Parish, Co. Cavan. The valuation records of the Electoral Divison of Ballymachugh, parish of Kilbride 1857-1930 lists John Ferguson as occupier of map references 1 and 7 on a page that appears dated 1862. Margaret Ferguson still occupies map reference 10 but a second entry shows Robert Ferguson in a different handwriting as though he became a joint occupier about 1860. Later, about 1872 it appears that Robert becomes the sole occupier as on this page Marg. appears but is crossed out. In this time frame the name John Ferguson no longer appears. From 1880 on, the only Ferguson listed is Robert.

That Robert appears in the 1901 census, age 65. His 1834 baptism record names his parents as John and Margaret. His civil registration marriage record of 1864 names his father as John and does not indicate that his father was deceased at that time.

Colin

[taramcdsmall]

Hi Colin,

I'm not sure how well versed you are on Irish records but I think your research here hinges on the marriage cert.

It was NOT always recorded on a marriage cert if the father was deceased or not.

It was purely random based on the clerk whom filled in the paperwork ~ some asked the question and noted whether the father was deceased or not, other clerks didn't.

So, the issue with GV in townlands is that we can presume that because we KNOW that our ancestor came from that townland we then presume that the folks on the GV with the same surname MUST be the same people.

How do you know that the John & Margaret listed are actually the parents of Roger ?

They both could have died in 1835 and so obviously not appear on the GV.

The Margaret that is listed could be the widow of a different Mr Ferguson.

Alternatively, it COULD be your Margaret and in fact YOUR John was deceased.

The John Ferguson listed might not be YOUR John and is just related in some other way; cousin, uncle, grandfather.

I'm probably not answering you question with great clarity but it might give you some ideas to ponder on.

Tara

[ColinUSA]

Hi Tara,
I think you are right about the marriage cert and I cannot find a suitable death record of a John Ferguson of Tullyboy who the cert implies is alive in 1864. I know from several sources that my father's grandmother Annie Eliza is the daughter of Robert Ferguson of Tullyboy. His parents were named John Ferguson and Margaret Chambers.

Annie Eliza was a cousin of my father's grandfather Robert Wesley Ferguson. His ancestor John Ferguson was of Tullyboy according to his burial recorded at Ballymachugh in 1847. His wife was Margaret Elliott. From military records, the 1821 census, the Ballymachugh parish records and letters written in the era I am confident this is not the Margaret in Griffiths.

I am trying to figure out how Annie Eliza and Robert Wesley were related as cousins but am unable to do so. Tullyboy is in the parish of Kilbride and unfortunately those records do not survive. I am lucky that my ancestors sometimes attended church in nearby Ballymachugh so I at least have some of the puzzle pieces.

Thanks,
Colin

[taramcdsmall]

Just a quick point ~

IF we work on the presumption that John Ferguson was NOT alive when his son got married then he obviously died before 1864.

Civil Registration only began in 1864 so you won't find a civil death record for him.

Your next option then is to look at the local church to see if they have a church burial or rememberance record for him.

The problem with this then is that the vast majority of churches at the time just didn't keep these records.

Those that did, well the information is scant at best; it might just say Mr Ferguson and a date, and usually if money was due for the burial ~ no address, no age, no next of kin, no cause etc etc etc.

It's really random from church to church re the burial records.

Tara

[taramcdsmall]

So, just trying to make out your last post:

Am I right in saying that you KNOW that there were 2 John Fergusons in the area at pretty much the same time ?

So, is it just the relationship between these two branches that you are trying to work out ?

Tara

[taramcdsmall]

. . . am I reading you right . . .

YOUR Great Grandmother was called Annie Eliza Ferguson

YOUR Great Grandfather was called Robert Wesley Ferguson

You have been told that this Annie & Robert were cousins.

Have you been told what degree of cousins that they were ie first, second etc

Did Annie & Robert get married in Ireland ?

Did you try on rootsireland to get their CHURCH marriage record ?

IF they were cousins there would have to have been a dispensation and the priest / clerk would / should have written in the records to say what degree of cousins this couple were.

That then makes it easier to work back how far the cousin connection is !

Tara

[Elwyn Soutter]

Hello,
I am wondering if a woman would be listed in Griffiths if her husband was alive and well. Anybody know a specific example?
Thanks,
Colin Ferguson

There are bound to be plenty of exceptions but the vast majority of women I have come across in Griffiths were widows.