Author Topic: Richardson Family  (Read 5893 times)

Offline Avongirl

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Richardson Family
« on: Thursday 21 May 15 03:21 BST (UK) »
Hi Northumberland list

I am having trouble researching Elizabeth Richardson born 24.9.1905 Northumberland and she died 1991 Wisbech.

Her first supposed marriage was to Henry Joseph or Joseph Henry Berkeley  in the 1920's I have searched but no marriage I can find.

Elisabeth Richardson and Henry J Berkeley had the following children

Roy A Berkeley 1928 Newcastle upon Tyne

Henry J Berkeley born 1930 Newcastle upon Tyne

Around the 1930's the family travelled to Cambridgeshire and there Elizabeth Richardson had another child a boy

Thomas A Berkeley in 1934 Wisbech but this child is also down as Thomas A Santry born 1934?

So I assume Henry J Berkeley must have died between 1930 to 1936 because in 1936 Elizabeth Richardson married Jeremiah Santry in Wisbech.

Jeremiah was born 1901/02 somewhere and died 1963 Wisbech

So if any one can find Elizabeth Richardson on the 1911 census or a birth I did come across a Elizabeth Ellen Richardson born Sept 1905 Newcastle upon tyne but she never used the middle name if that is her?

Any help with her first marriage or death of Henry J Berkeley or Joseph Henry Berkeley would be most appreciated.

AvonGirl :)

Offline SelDen

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Richardson Family
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 21 May 15 10:18 BST (UK) »
Www.freebmd.org has four Santry children with mother's maiden name of Richardson in the Wisbech registration district.

These include a Thomas A Santry registered 1934 two years prior to the Berkeley- Santry marriage. There is another one born a few years later. Is this second one a different sibling, or did the parents perhaps re- register the first Thomas under the Legitimacy Act? You would need to get the birth certificates to work this out, though I can't see a death for the first Thomas prior to 1940. If he was legitimised, the parents will have had to show the neither of them were married to third parties at the time. This would mean either Mr Berkeley had died by 1934 or he was never married to Elizabeth Richardson.

Offline lizdb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,307
    • View Profile
Re: Richardson Family
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 21 May 15 10:39 BST (UK) »
I think your best move in order to make any progress would be to get a copy of her marriage to Santry. Hopefully that will give a fathers name for her ( or blank if illegitimate). It will also show if she described herself as a widow or spinster. Though of course she may never have married Berkely but still use the term widow for propriety!
Not seeing a death for Berkely - whatbelse do you know about him? What was his occupation for example, from childrens birth certs? If something like a mariner for examplke then he may have died abroad.
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Avongirl

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: Richardson Family
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 21 May 15 11:32 BST (UK) »
Hi SelDen and lizdb

Yes I've been on freebdm and the Thomas A Santry born 1934 Wisbech is also down as Thomas A Berkeley via the Berkeley surname in 1934 under Richardson too.

The other santry Children were
Terence Santry born 1938 wisbech
Theresa Mary Santry born 1940 wisbech
And another Thomas A Santry Theresa's twin bother born 1940.

One brother was known as Andrew the other as Thomas but Andrew is the middle name of three children.
I do get the feeling Elizabeth never married the Berkeley partner because she did not know if her son born 1934 was a Santry or Berkeley?

This is my Aunts husbands family so I'll ask my dad about them.
What a tangled mess this is turning out and yes the next step is most likely my uncles birth and the Santry marriage I wonder what the birth certificate will say?

Thank you gives me something to think about

AvonGirl


Offline SelDen

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Richardson Family
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 21 May 15 19:00 BST (UK) »
Hi AvonGirl

Although both Thomas and Theresa Santry are both registered in the June quarter of 1949 1940 [corrected], they are not on the same or adjoining pages, suggesting they were registered at different times, which would be an unusual thing to do with twins. It is this which led me to wonder about the possibility of a re-registration of the first Thomas, a few years after his parents' marriage. Only a theory.

I agree with Liz - you need some certificates to progress further. The twentieth century can sometimes be quite hard to unpick otherwise given the size and mobility of the population, and the absence of census data.

Offline Avongirl

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: Richardson Family
« Reply #5 on: Friday 22 May 15 02:18 BST (UK) »
Hi SelDen

That is very interesting because on FreeBDM Thomas and Theresa were Regis in 1940?

Maybe Elizabeth and Jeremiah did register them again?

When I was younger my Aunt who married the younger Henry J Berkeley said his mother was a Day or Dugan/Duggan because my mum was a Dugan and her sister married a Day but his mum was not a Day but a Richardson?

I will ask my dad because he may give me a clue maybe his grandmother was a Day etc?

Will purchase the certificate's at a later date online which is the only way from Australia!
Or as my dad says the Local reg office or county council as he is from the UK but left.
Thank you will do another search on a hunch I feel see if it pulls up anything.

AvonGirl

Offline lizdb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,307
    • View Profile
Re: Richardson Family
« Reply #6 on: Friday 22 May 15 10:43 BST (UK) »
Best place to purchase certs online is direct from gro
www.gro.gov.uk
Using the references from the index
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline SelDen

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Richardson Family
« Reply #7 on: Friday 22 May 15 10:50 BST (UK) »
Hi

I am so sorry, I made a stupid typo.  :-[ I meant that although both a Thomas and Theresa Santry are both registered in the June quarter of 1940, they are not on the same or adjoining pages. If you look at www.freebmd.org.uk, you will see that the page reference for Thomas is 1570, while the page reference for Theresa is 1592. It would be usual for twins to be indexed on either the same page or an adjoining page, as they would normally be registered at the same time. Of course there might be some unusual circumstance we don't know about that caused the registration to occur at different times.

Given that a Thomas Santry, or Berkeley or Richardson was born in 1934, and there seem to be potentially multiple index entries in that year, I wondered if it was a possibility that in order to remove the taint of illegitimacy from Thomas, his parents applied to legitimise him and re-register him under the Legitimacy Act 1926.

The Wikipedia entry explains:
"The Act allowed children to be legitimised by the subsequent marriage of their parents, provided that neither parent had been married to a third party at the time of the birth. In those circumstances, the legitimised birth was re-entered in the birth indexes for that year (sometimes many years after the original birth). The original entry would be annotated to refer to the new entry."
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimacy_Act_1926

It is just a theory, and may not be correct.

If you are going to order certificates from overseas, the cheapest and easiest option is to do so directly from the General Register Office, using the references from www.freebmd.org.uk :
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

The commercial options are more expensive. You can also order from local register offices, but in most cases you would need a UK bank account.

Offline SelDen

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Richardson Family
« Reply #8 on: Friday 22 May 15 11:08 BST (UK) »
Sorry Liz, repeated your advice.