Westmeath Probate 1874

[jaybelnz]

My 3x great grandfather HENRY MAXWELL MATHEWS died Dublin 1 May 1838.  I have a reference to a Probate for him, but it's dated many years later, in 1874!

Can't actually remember where I picked this info up from, didn't note that foolishly, but kept a copy of the note on my computer - have copied and pasted at the bottom of this post. 

1.  Why would a probate take so long, his death was 1838, and probate date was 1874. Is that usual?

It's one of those things that just popped up when I was searching my own computer for something else that had I obviously buried in error, and forgot all about it!  No note to myself where I had got it from!  Could have been either find FindMyPast or Ancestry, just checking my source boxes for those now, but the time frame seemed a bit odd!  It may well have been on Dublin Rootschat Board, or on My Scavenger Hunt, where I have received wonderful assistance.

Appreciate any advice please about the time frame of this probate!

Henry's other details

Birth
c 1774

1835
Age: 61
18 Portland Street, Dublin - almanac directory entry

Death
1838
1 May
Age: 64
Dublin, Ireland
Henry Maxwell Mathews of Portland Street, Dublin Dublin Evening Mail, 7 May, 1838

Burial
1838
4 May
Dublin, Ireland
Henry Mathews of Portland Street, St George's Parish. St. Audain.

Probate
1874
Jun
Westmeath, Ireland
Henry Maxwell Mathews Ireland, Landed Estate Court Files Name: Henry Maxwell Mathews Event Type: Probate Event Date: 1874 Event Place: Westmeath, Ireland Document Number: 026 Volume Number: 115 Volume Date Range: Jun 1874 County: Westmeath

Thanks for any advice

Jeanne

[hallmark]

Often if wife was alive probate wasn't carried out until her death....and often not carried out at all as family just continue to live there.

[Maggsie]

Hello,
In those times it was a lot slower.
Probate today can take up to 12 months, if there isn't a will.
In those days Probate had to be obtained from London, then they would send the paper work to an office (somewhere / anywhere!) then it would go around in a chain until the great they were satisfied the deceased didn't have any complications. That's why it took years.
Also these records were published in a large book, that took time to collate and issue.
I hope this has helped.
Maggsie

[Sinann]

It's on FamilySearch
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCF1-CLZ
And again in Offaly
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCF1-CLC

[Elwyn Soutter]

Up to 1858, all probate work in Ireland was processed by Church of Ireland consistory courts (usually the diocese where the deceased resided). Most pre 1858 probate files were destroyed in the 1922 fire in the Public Record Office (ironically stored there for safe keeping). After 1858 probate was dealt with either by the Principal Probate Registry in Dublin or by various regional ones around the country (Cork, Belfast etc). Most of those files, up to 1900, were destroyed in 1922 too, though some transcripts survive.

I am not aware that Irish probate files routinely had to be referred to London, save where the deceased had estate in England & Wales, in which case the probate file was sealed and sent there for that aspect of the estate to be dealt with. Most were resolved in Ireland. I agree that where a widow or other dependent had a life interest in a property then final probate could sometimes not be granted till after their death and the estate was would up. So that’s one explanation for the gap in the years between death and probate.

However I seem to vaguely recall coming across this before on a query along the lines of “why is a probate file listed under Landed Estate Court files? What’s the connection?” and I think the answer is that there’s none and Familysearch have the information listed incorrectly. The papers may be a probate file or they may be a Landed Estates Court file but they seem unlikely to be both. Probably the answer is to order in the reel to an LDS library and see.

[hallmark]

No they weren't sent to London and many completed in very short space of time, registered at Wills/Deeds in Dublin where that Probate and it's full details are probably registered!

The original probate may not have been registered... IF it was a landed Estate matter it may have been a case that the probate needed to be completed then in order to sell off land etc!

[jaybelnz]

Thank you all so much for that!  Very much appreciated.  I have a stack of references to take to LDS, so add these to my list!  It's so long since I've had to wind through microfilms, it's going to be like a new experience all over again! 

Thanks again
Jeanne 😄

[hasta]

Just to add that as Elwyn Soutter suspected aboove this is nothing to do with probate and the Familysearch records are misleading in using the word 'Probate' The records are related to the sale of lands in Parkwood, Co Westmeath by the Landed Estates Court, one part of which is leased to "Richard Mathews, second son of Henry Maxwell Mathews, now deceased".

[jaybelnz]

Thank you Hasta!  This little gem of yours confirms my theory that Henry indeed had a son named Richard! And also his place in the family.

 I had another reference to a lease on some land by a Richard Mathews and Henry Maxwell Mathews, but wasn't sure if it was a son, brother, or even a father. 

 So far my gg grandfather is the only other son I have, although I do have 2 daughters, ... And so the search goes on.

Thank you for your contribution.

Jeanne