Author Topic: Looking for birth certificate of my mom  (Read 8270 times)

Offline Adiroit

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Looking for birth certificate of my mom
« on: Wednesday 27 May 15 00:29 BST (UK) »
Hello there, my name is Paul and I live in the US (and have since the age of 2). My mom passed away when I was just 5, as did my father. I was taken in by a wonderful family, however I have very little knowledge about my parents.

I'm here attempting to apply for my first British Passport. It would appear that I need a copy of my mom's birth certificate, but I can't seem to find much information online (correct information anyway) that would help me.

Her name is Kathleen Fraser McMahon (at birth).. and she was Kathleen Kenney when she married my dad. I believe she was born in 1961, or 1962, but it could be off by a year or so.

On my birth certificate (I was born in England).. it says her place of birth was "Dalkeith, Midlothian". I can't find much information about specific hospitals that would have maybe been open back then.

Any help would be SUPER appreciated. The only documents I have: My birth certificate (tiny one, looks original. Doesn't have my parents info on it but has my NHS number as well as someone named Sanda V. Caudy (Coudy? something like that) who apparently is/was a registrar of births and deaths. I have a larger copy of my birth certificate (Certified Copy) that lists my mom and dads information (place of birth). I have my NHS medical card, and my US passport which states "Place of Birth - United Kingdom".

I could be wrong in this next statement, but..

I believe that those documents which I have, as well as a copy of my mom's birth certificate (again, Dalkeith, Midlothian around 1961.. Kathleen Fraser McMahon) would be enough for me to obtain my UK passport.

Correct me if I'm completely wrong in my final statement, but I'm crossing my fingers it is.

I'm currently 25 years of age, and as sad as it sounds, only recently did I get access to all of these papers that I just listed.

Thank you VERY much in advance, and if anyone is able to help me get further in this mystery.. fresh pint is on me when I return :)

Cheers,
-Paul

Offline Rena

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Re: Looking for birth certificate of my mom
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 27 May 15 00:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Paul,
Welcome to rootschat.

All Scottish birth, marriage and death records are on this website:-

http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/

and here's your mother's record which can be ordered online (by clicking on the "no image" icon) by people in the UK,  but I'm not too sure how anyone outside of the UK would go about it.    Hopefully somebody will come along and explain:-

Year:  1962   MCMAHON   KATHLEEN FRASER   Female   

born in:  NEWBATTLE in MIDLOTHIAN   Ref:  695/00 0002   No Image
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Online Elwyn Soutter

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Re: Looking for birth certificate of my mom
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 27 May 15 08:21 BST (UK) »
You might find this government site helpful. It talks you thorough what you need to do to obtain a UK passport if you live outside the UK. The fee, including mandatory courier delivery, is apparently £102.86.

https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports
Elwyn

Offline Adiroit

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Re: Looking for birth certificate of my mom
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 27 May 15 11:42 BST (UK) »
You might find this government site helpful. It talks you thorough what you need to do to obtain a UK passport if you live outside the UK. The fee, including mandatory courier delivery, is apparently £102.86.

https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports

Thank you Rena! At least I know the record is there..now if only I could figure out how to border it.

And Elwyn I have seen that page and it is nice, until I read the part where it says I need my parents passport numbers and potentially my grandparents information which I of course don't have. I'm hoping that by having all the documents I listed, plus my moms birth certificate that that is good enough for them.


Offline KGarrad

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Re: Looking for birth certificate of my mom
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 27 May 15 12:16 BST (UK) »
If you read the Guidelines leaflet (Downloadable from that website) it says, re adoption:

Under the heading Parents details:

If you, or the child you are applying for is adopted, please enter the details of the adoptive parents here.

If you were born and adopted  in the UK on or after 1st January 1983 then you will be a British Citizen if either person that adopted you is a British Citizen.

When a child is adopted in the UK, nationality can be gained through either parent.
If a child is adopted outside of the UK unfer the Hague Convention, nationality may be gained through the adoptive parents depending on when the adoption took place, the nationality, and residence of the adopters at the time of the adoption.


So, it would appear that your birth mother's details are irrelevant?
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline california dreamin

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Re: Looking for birth certificate of my mom
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 27 May 15 12:26 BST (UK) »
You might find this government site helpful. It talks you thorough what you need to do to obtain a UK passport if you live outside the UK. The fee, including mandatory courier delivery, is apparently £102.86.

https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports

Thank you Rena! At least I know the record is there..now if only I could figure out how to border it.

And Elwyn I have seen that page and it is nice, until I read the part where it says I need my parents passport numbers and potentially my grandparents information which I of course don't have. I'm hoping that by having all the documents I listed, plus my moms birth certificate that that is good enough for them.

Hi Adiroit

I am not sure what State you live in by my advice would be to go to the British Consulate.  https://embassy-finder.com/united-kingdom_in_usa

You can also order your passport that way. 

If born in the UK and living in the US you may be entitled to dual nationality status*.  How have you managed to go without a passport for so long?  :-\

* For this they will need to know details about your father

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Looking for birth certificate of my mom
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 27 May 15 12:29 BST (UK) »
Getting a British passport is slightly more complicate than it used to be before 9/11 so you need to be patient and ask advice from the British Embassy or Consulate nearest you.

My children have dual U.S./British citizenship and over the last several decades we've had forms and documents to sort out so that both governments are satisfied. One child even lived in Toronto for a year to complicate things further. Something you need to be aware of if you do decide to travel-
- if you are a U.S. citizen, the U.S. govt. insists you travel into the U.S. on an American passport
- if you are a U.K. citizen, the U.K. govt. wants you to enter the U.K. on a British passport
therefore, if you are going to do some travelling you might need 2 valid passports

If you've been formally adopted that may change/complicate the situation even further therefore what you can find online may not apply to your case.

It can be very confusing to speak to an official on the telephone trying to get your queries answered and understanding the answers and information they give you so aside from reading taking notes of the conversation it might be a good idea to write out an outline of your case along the lines of-
1) I was born on [date] at [place]
2) my mother was born on [date] at [place]- I have/can get her birth certificate
3) my father was born on [date] at [place]- I have/can get his birth certificate? whether or not parents were married to each other when you were born might also be relevant
4) my parents died [dates and places]
5) I arrived in the U.S. on [date and place]
6) I was/was not adopted
7) I am/am not a U.S. citizen
8 ) if you have/had a U.S. passport- have the number(s) & dates 
etc.

There should be details for ordering a Scottish birth certificates on Scotland's People website (link given earlier)
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Adiroit

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Re: Looking for birth certificate of my mom
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 27 May 15 13:06 BST (UK) »
Getting a British passport is slightly more complicate than it used to be before 9/11 so you need to be patient and ask advice from the British Embassy or Consulate nearest you.

My children have dual U.S./British citizenship and over the last several decades we've had forms and documents to sort out so that both governments are satisfied. One child even lived in Toronto for a year to complicate things further. Something you need to be aware of if you do decide to travel-
- if you are a U.S. citizen, the U.S. govt. insists you travel into the U.S. on an American passport
- if you are a U.K. citizen, the U.K. govt. wants you to enter the U.K. on a British passport
therefore, if you are going to do some travelling you might need 2 valid passports

If you've been formally adopted that may change/complicate the situation even further therefore what you can find online may not apply to your case.

It can be very confusing to speak to an official on the telephone trying to get your queries answered and understanding the answers and information they give you so aside from reading taking notes of the conversation it might be a good idea to write out an outline of your case along the lines of-
1) I was born on [date] at [place]
2) my mother was born on [date] at [place]- I have/can get her birth certificate
3) my father was born on [date] at [place]- I have/can get his birth certificate? whether or not parents were married to each other when you were born might also be relevant
4) my parents died [dates and places]
5) I arrived in the U.S. on [date and place]
6) I was/was not adopted
7) I am/am not a U.S. citizen
8 ) if you have/had a U.S. passport- have the number(s) & dates 
etc.

There should be details for ordering a Scottish birth certificates on Scotland's People website (link given earlier)

KGarrad - I was never legally adopted, I was just kind of "taken in" and raised. I kept my last name (Kenney). That also is why I believe my mom's details are needed.

California Dreamin - I live in Pennsylvania. I have had a US passport for as long as I can remember.. it says "Place of Birth - United Kingdom" on it like I stated in the original post. I travel every chance I get! Getting details about my father will seem to be much more difficult unfortunately. His place of birth is just Germany - Federal Republic on my birth certificate. I don't know what year or anything. ""See my "Edit 3" at the bottom of my post.""

He was in the US military (he was adopted by a US family). I imagined I would only need information about my mother since she was the 100% Scottish one. The only reason I know so much about her, is because she was married to my half-sisters father before they divorced and my mom met my dad. I was "taken in" (not adopted) by him. So I was taken in by my half-sister's (same mother, different father) father.

It's a very confusing situation!

Aghadowey - I was never formally adopted (kept my parents last name). As per your outline -
1 ) I have those details.
2 ) I know the year and place since the first poster posted it, will have to figure out how to get the full details.
3 ) My fathers place of birth just says "Germany - Federal Republic" (he passed when I was just 5 as well, I know even littler about him). See my "Edit 3" at the bottom of my post.
4 ) I know the town I lived in, not so much the exact dates of both.
5 ) No idea.
6 ) Was not adopted, taken in.
7 ) Yes.
8 ) Yes, I have a current up to date US passport

Edit: Am I wrong in the assumption that because I have a NHS card / number (which is also on my 2 birth certificates).. that I'm automatically a citizen? It just kind of seems that way logically in my mind.. but I could be confused at how things work.

Edit 2: I know people say to set up a meeting at a British Consulate, however I can't figure out how to do that! It's hard to find a phone number, and no e-mail I can find helps much. I live in Langhorne, Pennsylvania (right outside Philadelphia) and the consulate info is tough

Edit 3: I have found a document in one of my folders. "Report of Casualty" (Department of the Air Force Washington D.C.) that lists my fathers date of birth and place (just says Germany). It also has his date / place of passing.

Offline Lisajb

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Re: Looking for birth certificate of my mom
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 27 May 15 13:26 BST (UK) »
Hi Paul

Maybe this will help?

Philadelphia — British Honorary Consulate

Details and comment forum for the Honorary Consulate of the United Kingdom in Philadelphia
Address   1818 Market Street, 33rd Floor
Philadelphia, PA 19103
Phone   local: (215) 557.7665
international: +1.215.557.7665
Mullingar, Westmeath Ireland: Gilligan/Wall/Meagher/Maher/Gray/O'Hara/Corroon (various spellings)
Bristol: Woodman/James/Derrick
Bristol/Somerset: Saunders/Wilmot
Gloucestershire:Woodman/Mathews/Tandy/Stinchcombe/Marten/Thompson
Wiltshire: Mathews
Carmarthen: Thomas, Lewis
Australia: Mary Lewis, transportee, married Henry Brown - what happened to her?