Are these the same people?

[lv426]

Hi again, sorry for so many posts here.

I have 2 different OPRs for a birth of Isabel Anderson in Berwickshire.

The 1st is 12 Mar 1798 with bap. in 8 Apr. (Parents james Anderson (Hynd) in Turtleton and Elizabeth Ford)

2nd 19th Mar 1798 no bap. mentioned...again Parents James Anderson and Elizabeth Ford and again listed as a hynd.

Is this a matter of a delay/glitch in paperwork or 2 seperate family groups of people that coincedentally have all the sames names that just happen to be only 1 or 2 miles away from each other and have a daughter with the same name within 1 week of each other?

I find the last one a bit hard to believe and think it may be same people but the paperwork is somehow different.

If it was just a matter of the dates being slightly different i'd say they were same family but they are noted as being from 2 different houses/farms..

They both have different OPR numbers, i can list them if it helps at all?


Thanks again.

 

[Br1gau]

Hi,

Do you have a marriage for James & Elizabeth?  If not, is it possible that they were not married and living in separate parishes at the time of Isabel's birth?

[lv426]

Hi Br1gau, thanks for the reply.

No i can't seem to find a marriage or even the births of James Anderson and Elizabeth Ford.

(I can find a few james Anderson births in the area, just not sure how to tie "my" James to one of them)

I didn't even think of them as being not married and living in seperate parishes.

I might have to look into that avenue, thanks for the pointer.

I just assumed they were married as i thought they wrote illegitimate on the OPR if they weren't? i have seen other children of seperate families listed on OPRs with that written.

Also a query about the parish aspect, how do you find out about parish boundaries??
All the childrens births have been listed as being "before the congregation in duns"  (some say burgher congregation some don't)

I will post a pic and show how close turtleton and Middlestots are. Only 2.7km (1.7m) as the crow flies approx.

thanks again for the idea i will look into that.

It's all very interesting though if not confusing

[lv426]

Br1gau, i didn't know much about the parish boundaries and churches of the time so i just looked the information up.


The information i found was that all the children born to James Anderson and Elizabeth Ford that i have OPRs for were born in the EDROM parish, the turtleton "family/clones" are in the duns parish.

Yet the thing is even though they are in the EDROM parish they went to the duns church.

is that unusual for it's time? personal preference etc?

cheers

[terianne]

probably are - the OPR can often only state the date of baptism and could have been born a few days earlier - but some have both - also the minister may write either born or baptised, but not always in the older records, upto the minister - sometimes the mother isn't even mentioned.

But: it isn't usually for it to be two different set of parents in the same family - it could be that two cousins with the same name married two related women. - it does happen and can be a generation apart ie a late birth for one couple and a birth to a younger couple

I have proof in my family and it can catch researchers out, because of the traditional naming paterns - i have two cousins called Andrew Aitken whom married a Nellie Waldie, and the two Nellie's are related Aunt & Niece.

always  worth checking out the ages of the parents & a little maths in respect of the women.

[lv426]

Hi Terianne, thanks for the reply, that's food for thought, i have come across a lot of James Anderson's in the Berwickshire area so this may be the case now i just hope that the James and Elizabeth that i have had down as "my" family line are the ones that are correct..


Do the OPR numbers mean anything?


I'll type what i have for both OPR's


1st.

19 Mar 1798 Middlestots James Anderson Hind and Elizabeth Ford his wife had a daughter born named Isabel.


2nd

1798 Isabel Anderson lawful daughter of James Anderson hynd in Turtleton and Elizabeth Ford was born 12 Mar 1798 and baptised 8 Apr witnesses James (Darling?) and George (Laurie>?)

They seem to similar and only 1 week away..i originally thought as one had less detail maybe one was a different log of the birth ?

But then again as you say they could be cousins etc, i wish i could see when James and Elizabeth were born and where and when they were married. that might give a few extra clues.

thanks again



 

[ecksdochter]

Hello lv426,
     Hind/Hyne: According to the Concise Scots Dictionary (1987 edition) the words hind & hyne are old Lothian/Border Scots for a farm servant. In particular a married, skilled farm worker.

     Parishes: Parish boundaries are highlighted on John Thomson's Atlas of Scotland, 1832.
                    http://maps.nls.uk/view/74400120
     This map shows Turtleton in Dunse Parish & Middlescots (Note spelling) in Edrom Parish. (The Parish boundary on the map you posted has been highlighted in blue.)

     OPR Numbers: Numbers like [735/00 0000 000 Dunse] or [738/00 0000 0000 Edrom] ?
These are reference numbers and each Parish has it's own number. The following link re: Parish List for Scotland might be helpful.
                    www.scotsfamily.com/parish.htm

     Two Birth Entries: Probably a very simple explanation. Maybe the mother went home to her parents to give birth, so the birth was entered in that parish as well as the parish she actually lived in. (You'll find that sometimes with Statutory Births) Or, if the parents attended a church in a different parish from the one they lived in, then the baby was probably born at home (12th or 19th March) and a birth entry, only, made in that parish register, then baptized 8th April, in the church they attended where the birth was registered again along with the baptism. The two birth dates (12th & 19th) exactly a week apart. I suspect one of them may be wrong. (Recorded by someone like me who can't remember if things happened this week, last week or a month or two ago!!)
     Good luck with your search.
               Regards,     Dod.
     
     
     

[lv426]

Thanks for all that information Dod, it makes a lot of sense, especially as Isabel (As far as i know) was their first child.

Hehe, i guess seeing as it was a first child and the first week/s of having one some people might be a little confused from lack of sleep etc 

Yes that is the numbers on my OPRs so thank you for that info as well.

Would i be correct in assuming that because the Middlestots birth was the less detailed and because in the turtleton/duns entry it says "James Anderson, Hynd in Turtleton" that Middlestots was her families residence?

Of a note on middlestots/Middlescots i have also seen it written as Middlestotes, i am not sure of the origin of that name though.


thanks again for all that information and pointers, i appreciate it!