1841 census "where born" abbreviation

[trish1120]

Thats interesting Frances as Hugh names his 1st Son;
JOHN JOSEPH Kinley, 25 Mar 1853 St Bartholomew, Vauxhall, Lancashire
Others;
ROBERT ARCHDALE, 3 Feb 1856
ELIZABETH, 7 April 1858
MARGARET JANE, 5 Feb 1860
Parents HUGH/ELIZABETH, Father a Baker
(Lancs OPC)

Having trouble finding any of them in 1851

1861 Elizabeth seems to be Widowed;
Thomas Archdale 55
Harriett Archdale 16
Joseph Brooks    31
Robert Martie    26
Elizabeth Lamb    30
Elizabeth Kinley    30
Thomas Kinley    9
Robert Kinley    6
Elizabeth Kinley    3
Margaret Kinley    1

[trish1120]

Frustrating as I cant find them on Census!

Marriage: 4 May 1877 St Paul, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Robert Archdale Kinley - Full, Fireman, Bachelor, Primrose Hill
Margaret Erlam - Full, Spinster, Fontenoy Street
Groom's Father: Hugh Kinley, Baker
Bride's Father: Peter Erlam, Joiner
Witness: John Ferry Erlam; Elizabeth Erlam

Marriage: 2 Aug 1909 Christ Church, Aughton, Lancashire, England
Thomas Kinley - 56, Wharehouseman, Widower, Aughton
Margaret Sill - 53, Widow, Aughton
Groom's Father: Hugh Kinley, (deceased), Baker
Bride's Father: John King, Gamekeeper
Witness: John Goode; Agnes Goode, (X)

Possible Death Reg;
HUGH Kinley, March 1874, Liverpool, 8b 69, age 47 (birth c 1827)

[Brian Francis]

... neither can I find bapt for Margt Douglas! ...

The family tree I am working on has the information posted by Trish (thank you!), and the following for Margaret (my 3rd great grandmother):

Name:   Margaret Bell Douglas
Baptism Date:   13 Jul 1807
Baptism Place:   Braddan, Isle of Man
Father:   James Douglas
Mother:   Lettitia Stowel
Biography:   Parents: James Douglas & Lettitia Stowel. (MS09073/1/1)

I've used Ancestry for many years and have mined what I can from their records. Since this is hobby (granted an all consuming one) my funds are somewhat limited. Suggestions (such as imuseum.im) as to sources of Isle of Man records are welcome!

Thanks,
Brian.

[Frances_mnb]

if d/o James + Letitia then the marr should state she was under age but it doesn't only Both of the parish;
Latitia d/o Thomas Stole + Deborah Quayle was bapt Malew 176810028
Deb Stowell als quayle was bur ?Bra 18140318 age 84 - prob bapt Malew 17321114 father john

[Brian Francis]

if d/o James + Letitia then the marr should state she was under age but it doesn't only Both of the parish;

Baptized 13-Jul-1807 and married 15-Jun-1825 would make her 17y 11m old at date of marriage. What was full age at that time? Also, when you say "both of the parish", to what record are you referring. I have access to index information only, as in "Married: Joseph Kinley. Groom's marital status: Bachelor. Groom's father: not stated. Bride's marital status: Spinster. Bride's father: not stated. (MS09073/3/3part1)".

Latitia d/o Thomas Stole + Deborah Quayle was bapt Malew 176810028
Deb Stowell als quayle was bur ?Bra 18140318 age 84 - prob bapt Malew 17321114 father john

I've noted the reference to Letitia Stole baptized 28-Oct-1768, but I've not entered this information into my tree (yet). Unfortunately Margaret's marriage record does not list her father, and I generally rely on this type of information or census records when bridging generations. Would newspaper records of marriages typically provide more information?

[Frances_mnb]

Both of parish = both resided in parish of marriage  (Douglas tho in civil parish of Onchan was in ecclesiastical parish of Braddan - just one more Manx thing!) - legal age at marriage was 21 (look up on my website as you are now getting deep into manx records where English rules do NOT apply)
you are only looking at the mormon (they own ancestry etc) reading of the marriage register not the actual register - as is typical with mormons many errors + misunderstanding creep in.
You will not generally find any confirmation of father's name on marriage entries pre 1843
18th cent marriages etc generally need confirmation via wills + land records etc (there are 2000+ marriage contracts)

ETA newspapers pre 1830's generally reported only the stuff important to their subscribers who generally lived in Douglas and Castletown - with few exceptions anything happening more than 5 miles away from these towns might as well be happening on the moon

[Brian Francis]

This is great information. What is the link to your website please? Also, how can I get access to the records you are quoting from? Thanks again, Brian.

[Frances_mnb]

look at my profile but site www.manxnotebook.com
images of the actual pages of registers are starting to appear on ancestry I think as they were filmed about 3 years ago (as I have ready access only 9 miles away via Manx Museum - well worth spending days here! - I don't look at such sites)  - currently some of the land records are also being filmed - all manx wills (bar those too fragile + a couple of forgotten bundles ) were microfilmed  in 1940s (but have recently been re digitized) - for indices to these wills (some 60,000) see partial index on www.iomfhsoc.im - I have some 20,000+ summaries on my website - there are other websites but if you put a query on http://www.isle-of-man.com/genealogy/messageboard/index.pl Sue will probably give you chapter + verse as the weather being miserable in her part of Oz she seems to be online quite a bit.

[Blue70]

Hi Brian

Don't forget the free images on Family Search:-

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1784428


Joseph Kinley & Margaret Douglas - Marriage 1825

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-11997-3954-29?cc=1784428


Blue