ida may smith

[Annette7]

The more I think about this I believe that Charles Hendy was her father - he attended your mothers wedding, she had his name and allowed himself to be listed as her father.   I firmly believe he was not married to Elizabeth's mother who continues to be unknown thus making her birth certificate impossible to be found.

Discovered that Charles came from a somewhat disfunctional family going by various trees on ancestry.   Whilst Charles himself gave birthdate 22/8/1897, the trees say 22/8/1898.   However, whilst his parents were a Charles William Hendy and Catherine Ann Varley they did not marry until 13/5/1899 St. Michaels, Chatham.   Thus his birth would have been illegitimate but there is no birth entry for a Charles Hendy or Varley in Medway district for the appropriate time and at least one very detailed tree assumes it simply wasn't registered.   However, I've noticed that a Horace Varley birth was registered in Sept.1897 Medway who then 'vanishes'.   No death, not on any census - I wonder whether this could have been Charles as the time fits exactly and they simply changed his name.  He seems to have followed in his fathers footsteps as being somewhat disruly and ended up in a Catholic Approved School in 1907 as being 'Beyond Control' and eventually shipped out to Canada on 24/6/1914, arriving in Quebec on 2/7/1914.   

So, we now know he went to Canada but when did he return?   I cannot locate him on 1921 Canadian Census, nor can I find him in UK incoming records although return he did.   I did find a Charles Varley of the right age arriving from Canada on 22/6/1924  - shown as a Student (??) and UK address to be 61 Guys Inn Buildings, Roseberry, London.   I can't find this Charles Varley on 1921 Canadian census either, nor can I see a Charles Varley returning to Canada.   Was this possibly him returning in his birth surname?  Who knows!   

If Charles Hendy's correct birthdate was 22/8/1897 then his entry into the approved school has the year wrong i.e. 22/8/1898.   I wouldn't mind betting that the Horace Varley birth in 1897 was him.

I cannot find the Hendy family in 1901 census (nor have the online trees).   The census was on 3rd April 1901 - their daughter Kathleen was born 10th April at 2 Broad Alley, Gillingham but they family weren't living there on census date just a week earlier!!   They appear to have eluded the enumerator.

So, whilst I can't help with the name of your grandmother, I feel sure that Charles Hendy was indeed your grandfather.

Annette

[dove13au]

i do not think that is the right one.i know charles was at st vincents industrial school for roman catholic boys at dartford kent when he was 13.ty for help

[silvery]

Where do you get the information that he was aged 13 in the boys home?   If it is the 1911 census then it fits with the birthdates that Annette has found.
For what it's worth, I think Annette is right.   It's a good piece of research.   

Did you ever meet Nellie Phipps' daughter?    Could Nellie be the grandmother to you? 

[Annette7]

As silvery agrees - the one you say is your Charles Hendy at St. Vincents Industrial School, Dartford aged 13 born Chatham is the same person as the son of Charles and Catherine!

Industrial Schools like this were also reformatory schools (what today we refer to as Approved Schools)- often they were pretty bad but this one being run by the RC church appears to have been a good one.   The children who would go there would be orphans, those unable to be kept at home for some reason, those who'd been in some kind of trouble, with the aim being to educate them, teach them an occupation, and discipline.  Googling shows it had a very good reputation and in 1933 it officially became known as an Approved School.

Think about it logically - Hendy was an unusual name especially in Kent.   What are the odds of 2 Charles Hendy's being born in Chatham on 22nd August, one 1897 and the other 1898.   'Your' Charles was at the school in Dartford in 1911, so was the other Charles yet there is only one boy of that name there.   'Your' Charles cannot be found on 1901 census, nor can the other one.  We know that for whatever reason Charles William Hendy, wife Catherine, sons Charles and Francis Walter (plain Walter in 1911) are missing from 1901 census on 3rd. April - yet just one week later daughter Kathleen is born in Gillingham so they must have been around somewhere in the area (although not at the address where Kathleen was born 7 days later).   Clearly, the family were in the process of moving house, with Catherine about the give birth,  which could be why they were missed by the enumerator.

'Your' Charles and the son of Charles William Hendy and Catherine Varley are clearly one and the same and I really don't know how else I can convince you.

As I said earlier, my gut feeling is that the 'Horace' Varley birth in Sept. quarter 1897 (who apart from birth entry is never seen again) is the later to be 'Charles', son of Charles and Catherine, nee Varley (who didn't marry until 1899) and that the birthdate of said 'Horace' is likely to be 22nd August.   As the couple weren't yet married he would have been listed as a Varley.   If I'm wrong on that, then again, as the other trees state, the birth simply wasn't registered at all.   Looking at it logically again, if there were 2 Charles Hendy's born 22nd August Chatham, one in 1897 and one in 1898, what are the odds on both birth registrations to be missing?

Annette





 

[dove13au]

thank you for that it seems to fit but i do not know if he went to canada.we left england in 1962 when i was 12 so i dont really remember much only going to the baths in kidderminster.then going to who i knew as my grand parents in leswell lane.we lived in stourport on severn.no i never met nellies daughter that i can remember i really do not remember any relatives from them. nellies daughter was born 1920 tyhttp://www.rootschat.com/forum/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif

[Ladyhawk]

it seems to fit but i do not know if he went to canada.
we left england in 1962 when i was 12 so i dont really remember much only going to the baths in kidderminster.

then going to who i knew as my grand parents in leswell lane.we lived in stourport on severn.

no i never met nellies daughter that i can remember i really do not remember any relatives from them. nellies daughter was born 1920

Have been following all the replies especially from Annette who has done a lot of research

Did you check the Electoral Registers for Leswell Lane right up until 1962?

I see you have public tree  and you have attached the following record
22nd July 1907 Britten Street, Old & New Workhouse Discharge for Charles Hendy age 13

Do you think the above is the correct Charles Hendy?

The reason I ask the question is

That Charles would have been born C1894, also on the same sheet for discharge is a
John Hendy age 7 (born c1900 - I would presume his brother)

I think this might be that Charles & John Hendy on census with their parents and siblings

1901 census RG13; Piece: 34; Folio: 76; Page: 41
John Hendy 33, Caroline 33, Charles 7 Fulham, Marian 3 Old Kent Road, John 1 Old Kent Road

this looks to be the families admission to Britten Street, Old and New Workhouses, in 1907 July 9th  together with their parents & sister

John Hendy 1867 engineer
Caroline 1868 needlework
Charles Arthur John 1894
Marion Sophia Mary 1886
John Thomas 1900

I would like to ask some info. re: m/c of your mother so I ’m sending you a personal message rather than asking them your thread, if thats ok with you 

[dove13au]

found out nellie had 2 daughters only thought she had 1 doris luker.her other daughter marion  blanche luker married a pritchard ida may smith married a pritchard also it is weird

[Ladyhawk]

found out nellie had 2 daughters only thought she had 1 doris luker.her other daughter

apologies - on my pm should have put possible sister to Doris, further investigation is needed to see if there is any connection to your Luker/Phipps family

M B Luker was born in Monmouth not Kidderminster although mmn is the same PHIPPS -
it may just be a coincidence they have the same surnames & mmn

Checked FreeBMD and there's a  marriage entry Monmouthshire 1912 Charles W Luker to Esther M Phipps - these might be her parents. You won't know for certain unless you see her birth certificate to confirm her parents names

There are two other Luker births in Monmouthshire mmn Phipps 1914 & 1917 both male
(see FreeBMD)

[philheeks]

In Lady Hawk's reply on page 3 I note an address 27 Off?? road - this would be Offmore Road, I used to live in Kidderminster

All the very best

Phil