Author Topic: What Wills / probate papers survived the 1922 Four Courts explosion?  (Read 3036 times)

Offline brianoleary85

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
What Wills / probate papers survived the 1922 Four Courts explosion?
« on: Wednesday 17 June 15 10:55 BST (UK) »
Hi all,

I visited the National Archives of Ireland last Thursday to view some wills/probate papers, and emailed ahead to order them in from off-site storage. I was told that the papers for someone who had died in 1916 (identified in the NAI's online scanned copies of the original Testamentary Calendars: intestate, had administration granted at Principal Registry in 1917) had not survived.

This didn't seem to tally with the National Archives of Ireland website which says that "Original wills and administration papers lodged in the Principal Registry since 1904" had survived.

I was a bit confused, but went along with it. When I attended on Thursday, I was told by the attendant on duty that the admin papers for an intestate death in 1916/17 would definitely have survived, as only the pre-1904 material had been destroyed in the Four Courts explosion.

So I emailed back my original point of contact in the NAI, but they insist that administration papers for intestate deaths do not survive from before 1922. I effectively got a "No, the 1917 admin papers didn't survive" reply, so am not at all clear why I am being told two diametrically opposed things here.  :-[

Can anybody with experience or knowledge of this situation please shed some light on it???

(I started another thread last week about the National Archives of Ireland and Wills/probate papers, but as that thread ended up focusing on other aspects of my queries, I would like to put a question again in a fresh thread. Original Thread here: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=722452.0 )

Offline hallmark

  • ~
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,525
    • View Profile
Re: What Wills / probate papers survived the 1922 Four Courts explosion?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 20 June 15 16:44 BST (UK) »
After the fire, appeals were made throughout Ireland, England, Scotland, and America, for all who had copied the records during the past 53 years, to send their copies or transcripts, abstracts, or notes, to replace the burned records.

It was known that a large number of original records (wills, marriage records, parish registers, etc.) had never been sent to this office and these or copies were requested. The appeals brought tremendous response. Legal (solicitors') offices, governmental, historical and genealogical repositories in Ireland and abroad sent original records, transcripts, abstracts, and notes from the burned records, as gifts or on
loan for copying.

Genealogical collections representing the life work of great genealogists such as Betham, Crossle,
Groves, Sadleir, etc., were given or sold to this office.

Individuals by the hundreds sent collections of family documents covering several generations. Several hundred parish registers of baptism, marriage and burial, either original or transcripts, were in local custody at the time of the fire, and so were available.

One of the most valuable collections acquired, which for the genealogist, repaired the loss of the Prerogative Wills, is the great collection of 241 volumes of the Betham Genealogical Abstracts. Sir William Betham, Ulster King of Arms, filled 80 volumes of this collection with abstracts of about 37,000
Prerogative Wills, 1595-1800, which represented all that were proved in the Prerogative Court of Armagh during this period.

The other volumes were: Two of Kildare Wills, 1661-1826; 16 of Prerogative marriage licenses, 1629-1801; 56 of Prerogative administrations, 1595-1800; 4 of Prerogative marriage licenses, 1629-1800. The last 29 volumes are miscellaneous extracts from court records, pedigrees and
memoranda.

An indexed catalogue of the collection is in the Public Record Office. Besides these Betham Manuscripts,
there are 8 volumes of his letters dealing with his genealogical researches and memoranda and extracts on genealogical subjects and other important collections of manuscripts which are listed in the Fifty-Eighth Report of the Deputy Keeper of the Records, pp. 26, 27.

As these great collections were being accumulated, indexed, and made available to the public, additional Reports were published which furnished this information to all who were interested. In 1926, The Fifty-Third Report of the Deputy Keeper of the Public Records, which had been prepared in
1922, was published. Between 1928-1936, with the publication of the Fifty-Fifth, Fifty-Sixth, and Fifty-Seventh Reports, and in 1951, the publication of the Fifty-Eighth Report, these Reports have served as immensely valuable catalogues for the genealogist, of the records now in the Public Record Office, Dublin. These may be found in most of the larger genealogical libraries of the United States.

There are also card catalogues, in the public search room, and typed indexes to various collections. The card index of testamentary documents is very extensive; it indexes many thousands of wills, duplicates and official plain copies of wills, grants of administrations, and original unproved wills never lodged for probate, which became too numerous after 1936 any longer to index in the Reports.

The Crossle Family Index, a very large collection, is the index to the Philip Crossle Manuscripts, consisting of family records, pedigrees, family notes, compiled genealogy, extracts from historical magazines, original miscellaneous records, abstracts of Chancery bills and Equity Exchequer bills and answers setting out family relationships, etc.

The Deeds index is a topographical card index to the deeds prior to the establishment of the Registry of Deeds in 1708. The enormous number of deeds received among family documents, running into thousands, also are indexed.

The Betham Manuscripts and many others, such as the Tenison Groves collection; the Swanzy genealogical abstracts of wills, administrations and marriage licenses for Prerogative Court, 1681-1846; the Monk Mason Manuscripts, being abstracts of inquisitions, Counties Dublin and Wicklow,
Henry IV to Charles II, also the Chichester House Claims (with notes on decisions), or before 10 August 1700; the Stewart Kennedy notebooks, which contain abstracts of Prerogative and Diocesan Wills; the Greene Manuscripts, being extracts from the Prerogative and Diocesan Wills, Grant Books, Parish Registers, and the Prim collection; are all indexed by the collection. Besides this, such collections as the
Diocesan Marriage License Bonds are preserved for the 26 dioceses in index form and are in the public search room.


Give a man a record and you feed him for a day.
Teach a man to research, and you feed him for a lifetime.

Offline Wexflyer

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,217
  • Not Crown Copyright
    • View Profile
Re: What Wills / probate papers survived the 1922 Four Courts explosion?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 24 September 16 04:27 BST (UK) »
OP - Did you ever point out this discrepancy to the NAI website staff?
There are also professional genealogists who specialize in Irish probate cases - Steven Smyrl comes to mind. If I were you, I would also ask someone like him.
Please report back if you ever do sort this out!
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area