MCMASTERS in Templepatrick, Antrim

[Famtreebuilder]

I was wondering if anyone could help me verify an 1833 Co Antrim marriage.

I found an index online some time ago that told me James MCMASTER married Jane/Jean JAMIESON (maybe spelt JAMESON) on 12 Feb 1833 in Templepatrick Co Antrim.  I saw it on FamilySearch but I can't find it there now when searching for Irish marriages - it was a user submitted record though.  I may even have seen it on Ancestry too but I can't find it there either now.

Here is what I found previously:
         
JAMES MC MASTER married JANE JAMIESON 12 FEB 1833 Templepatrick, Antrim, Ireland
Messages: Form submitted by a member of the LDS Church. The form lists the submitter's name and address and may include source information. The address may be outdated. Details vary. To find the form, you must know the batch and sheet number.
   Source Information:
   Batch Number:    8806939       
   Sheet:    25       
   Source Call No.:    1553162     

How can I get hold of the original record and corroborate this information?

I'm also looking for the birth records of any children they had in Templepatrick/Antrim.  I know they had at least these four children in Ireland:

William MCMASTER born c1834 (I have a note his date of birth may have been 1st Dec 1834 in Templepatrick with a christening on 5th Dec 1834)
Robert MCMASTER born c1836
Fanny MCMASTER born c1839 (I have a note that she was christened as Francess McMaster but I don't know where)
Alexander MCMASTER born c1842

Between Alexander's birth and the birth of their daughter Ann Jane in 1845 the family moved to Scotland and settled in Stirlingshire.

I think James MCMASTER was born in Antrim around 1813 and Jane JAMIESON around 1809.

Any help with this would be great - thank you!

[BallyaltikilliganG]

Not so easy, I just offer some quick search results
In an attempt to find which townland in Templepatrick they lived in for church record searching I tried http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/antrim/tithe-applotments/templepatrick-parish.php#.VYhMxkuDoYU
Jameson, Geo. Townland: Killgreel Year: 1833

Jamison, David Townland: Ballynabarnish Year: 1833

Jamison, Geo. Townland: Ballynabarnish Year: 1833

Jamison, William Townland: Ballynabarnish Year: 1833
McMaster nil  {but they appear in Griffith valuation see note below}
Thompson, Grace Townland: Mullusk Year: 1833

Thompson, Robt. Townland: Ballyrobert Year: 1833

The 1851 census shows the family living in Hays Land, Herbertshire{Village},
Dunipace parish, Stirlingshire
James McMaster b 1813 Ireland{a James McMaster b 1813 is on a tree belonging to ‘michelle’ on Genes Reunited
Jane {nee Jameson/Jamison} b 1809 Ireland 
children
William MCMASTER born c1834 {not living in home 1851}
Robert MCMASTER born c1836 {1837 on census}
Fanny MCMASTER born c1839 (I have a note that she was christened as Francess McMaster but I don't know where) called Fany in census
Alexander MCMASTER born c1842 {b Ireland, already working in 1851}
so migration 1843-4}
Ann Jane in 1845 Dunipace parish called Jane in census
Isabella b ~ 1847 Dunipace parish

Emerald Ancestors https://www.emeraldancestors.com/has a Fanny Jamison b Co Antrim 1835

My Conclusion are James McMaster may not have come from Templepatrick parish
the surrounding parishes include Using http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/antrim/tithe-applotments/.……and calling the site TAR
11 Ballylinny No McMaster
12 Ballymartin TAR has no list
23 Carnmoney the TAR lists
McMaster, John    Townland: Lisnalinchy and Ballycalket Year: 1835 could this be James father

1862 Moving to Griffiths valuation see www.askaboutireland.com  living with many others in a row of houses with map ref 18D ci is William McMaster in Craigarogan townland on the edge of Mallusk a busy place within Templepatrick. James might have learnt his trade here.
 Hope others join in for you good luck, Jim

[Famtreebuilder]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for trying - it's a real mystery for me.  I have the 1851 census and the family going forward in Scotland but nothing going back to Ireland.  I wish I could source the marriage information as that must have come from somewhere but no idea where.  I have found one marriage for a McMaster in Templepatrick:

Robert McMaster married Eliza McReary on 21st August 1834 in Templepatrick

Whether or not this Robert is related to my James at all though I have no idea - they could be brothers or cousins but it's speculative.  James did name one of his sons Robert but that's not saying much either.

In terms of who James' father might be - I have a strong feeling he may have been William McMaster.  Another mystery with James is his death.  He was alive at the time of the 1861 census but there is no sign of him on the 1871 Scottish census and he is listed as deceased on his son James' marriage record by 1878.  So wherever he died he died between 1861 and 1878.  I did contemplate perhaps he died back in Ireland but I think he remained in Scotland.  There is one death record from 1870 that I'm almost certain is his but there are discrepancies on it so I always hesitate to say I'm 100% sure.  The father's name on this record is given as William but sadly no mother's information is given. Of course even if this is the right record perhaps his son, who registered the death, got the name of his father wrong since he didn't even know the name of his mother so it might not be William after all.  It's all I have to go on though and they did name their first son William.

As far as his occupation goes he was listed as a block printer, printer and worker at a papermill on a number of certificates so pretty consistent.

Thanks again for any help - I know it's a tough ask!

[Famtreebuilder]

I've finally managed to find the page on FamilySearch from which I got the information about James McMaster marrying Jane Janieson in Templepatrick in 1833.  Here is the link:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/MCKC-BZB

It says the information was submitted by rdcoleman762107 but I can't find any way to contact this person to ask where they got the information from.  Does anyone have any idea how I can do that?  I'm guessing they haven't added contact details and it's not possible but this is such a big brick wall and it would be great to find out exactly where they got that information from so thought I'd check I'm not missing something simple.

Thanks!

[aghadowey]

The source is listed in the link you posted- Family History Library Family History Library , Microfilm : 1553162
Checking that number in the LDS catalog shows- Patron Ordaince Submission Sheets- as far as I know those sheets are not available to non-members.
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&query=%2Bfilm_number%3A1553162

Two possibilities-
According to this list, Templepatrick Church of Ireland records start 1827-
http://irelandgenealogyprojects.rootsweb.ancestry.com/Old/coirecs.html
Presbyterian ones from 1831-
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~fianna/county/antrim/antpres.html

[Famtreebuilder]

Thanks for that aghadowey.

I would be most interested in the Presbyterian records as I suspect the marriage I'm looking for is most likely to be amongst those.  It looks like perhaps going to PRONI in person or getting someone who can go for me is the only way to see these records - am I right? 

Thanks again.

[aghadowey]

Your profile doesn't give a location but you might find the records in the LDS catalog- if they've it on microfilm you could order if from your local LDS library for a small fee and view it there. However, the film may be extremely difficult to read and it's likely the only details shown will be the date and names of bride and groom.

[TheWhuttle]

Hi FTB,

The sources of these entries in the LDS online records by RDColeman are the McKINNEY "Stud Books" held at Sentry Hill, Ballycraigy, Carnmoney.

They consist of marriage/birth/baptismal/death information arranged in family grouping tables, the details having been transcribed and assembled by William Fee McKINNEY (WFM) in the late 19thC and early 20thC.

WFM was secretary of the Pb Church at Carnmoney for many years, developing an interest in the origins of the local population.  He managed to persuade several other local churches to lend him their record books - Templepatrick Pb being one of them.

The books were photographed by Ron Coleman back in the 1970s.
He is still with us (just) and will respond to queries.
I'll send you a PM on how to get in touch.
[However, the submission if his database of the transcriptions, enhanced by additional information from contacts over the years, is meant to provide definitive access to the information via FamilySearch (aka LDS online).]

The Stud Books are also available on microfilms from LDS.
The Stud Books are also available on microfilms at PRONI, as are McKinney's diaries.

WFM also talked with the locals to clarify/enhance the information from the records.
So there are useful mentions of "Went to Canda/Scotland/England", "Drowned", etc. as well as indications of the names (sometimes just surnames) of marriage partners.

Ultimately, the Stud Books are transcriptions (albeit by a meticulous amateur researcher).
The original church records are what you want to access.
http://www.proni.gov.uk/guide_to_church_records.pdf
[Sadly, the early CoI records of St. Patrick's, which would have contained records of all parishioners, are not extant.]

Be aware, that the Templepatrick Pb congregation split, with (unusually) the "Old Light"  (Orthodox) folks walking out and establishing a new church at Lyle Hill (near Craigarogan).  They didn't like the new fangled ideas coming out of Edinburgh at the time!

Capt. Jock

[TheWhuttle]

Hi again FTB,

Reckon that your folks may have been employed at the paper mill at Dunadry village.
Housed there by the proprietor of the mill & village, Mr. James BLOW (of Belfast).
[His ancestors had owned it since 1747, taking over from the BEARD family.]

The village lies in the parish of the "Grange of Nilteen", about 3 miles from Antrim town.
[In the CoI structure, it formed part of the Union of Donegore.
 Being conjoined with the parishes of "Donegore & Kilbride" and "Grange of Doagh".
 The parish church (St. John's) was situate at Donegore.]

Ultimately the parish was the property of the Marquis of Donegall.
[CHICHESTER family from Devon, owners of Belfast, etc.]

Apart from a Druid's altar, there were no places of worship in the parish.
So folks went to their appropriate venues nearby at Donegore, Parkgate, Templepatrick & Antrim.
[Most of the population were Dissenters.]

Dunadry was once spelt as Donathery.
[Still pronounced that way in the 1830s.]

The village had 21 houses - 2 x 2-storey and 19 x 1-storey.
15 of the 1-storey houses were thatched, not slated.
21 families - 119 individuals.
18 families are of the humbler class, chiefly employed at the mill.

The paper mill diffused ease and comfort to the villagers.
[As, no doubt, did the local pub.]

About 50 people are provided with constant employment.
12 men (earning 13-14s/week)
38 women/boys/girls (earning 4-9s in Summer and 2-5s in Winter).

Fully automated modern machinery (cast in Belfast) was installed in 1832.
[Such capable of producing paper of any length at a rate of 320 lbs every 24 hours.
 Reckoned to be better than that (from Scotland) installed in Ballylinny (town of Ballyclare).]

Original settlers in the area came chiefly from Galloway (with the ADAIRs), and Southern Scotland.


The rest of the parish consisted mostly of farmers (average farm size ~30A).

Linen weaving was practised extensively (50 looms), but such died out.
Some men go to Glasgow (mostly) or Liverpool during the summer for work.
None remain there.

Reference:

ORDNANCE SURVEY
MEMOIRS OF IRELAND

PARISHES OF COUNTY ANTRIM XIII
1833, 1835, 1838
Templepatrick and District

pp. 84-104 Grange of Nilteen (1833)

Book can be ordered from Discover your Irish and Scots-Irish Ancestry

http://www.booksireland.org.uk/store/ordnance-survey-memoirs/ordnance-survey-memoirs-of-ireland-vol-35-county-antrim-xiii-1833-1855-1838


Hope that gives you something to mull over ...

Capt. Jock