Author Topic: Mary Ann(e) Thomas 1856-1915  (Read 6931 times)

Offline Deirdre784

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Mary Ann(e) Thomas 1856-1915
« on: Saturday 27 June 15 14:05 BST (UK) »
Hi, I'm looking for help with the early years of Mary Ann(e), hopefully to confirm what I have and to find her parents.

On her marriage (31 Oct 1876, Brecon register office, to Walter Robert Leigh) she was Mary Anne Thomas, aged 20, spinster, of Watton Road, Brecon, father John Thomas (deceased), coachman.

I found a baptism of a Mary Anne, daughter of John - brewer and ostler - and Maria, of Three Cocks Lane, Brecon on 16 May 1856 at St Mary's, Brecon.

I then found a birth registration in Brecknock, June quarter 1856, for a Mary Ann Thomas. I contacted Powys council who checked the registration and father was John so I've bought the certificate. This matches the baptism (though without the 'e' in Ann), John an ostler, mother Maria formerly Evans, of Three Cocks Lane.

BUT, I can't find the family in 1861 or 1871 to confirm this is the right family (though Mary Ann, aged 16, is possibly in High Street, Brecon as a domestic servant to David Evans, draper, in 1871), nor can I find a marriage for John Thomas and Maria Evans, nor baptisms for any other children.

As Mary Ann married in Brecon - I have all the info on her and her family from then on, other than a 2nd marriage for Mary Ann following the death of husband Walter Robert, which doesn't appear to exist - I assume they were from the area but any help on this would be gratefully received.

Thanks in advance,

Deirdre
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Mary Ann(e) Thomas 1856-1915
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 28 June 15 20:30 BST (UK) »
Typically, having posted this, I have now found a possible marriage, in Merthyr Tydfil, December quarter 1850.

Have emailed Merthyr Tydfil CBC to ask if John is an ostler, brewer or coachman as that is all I have to go on at the moment. Can't find them in Merthyr in 1851 though  :-\
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Kevin Burrell

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Re: Mary Ann(e) Thomas 1856-1915
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 28 June 15 20:58 BST (UK) »
Perhaps this is Mary Anne in 1861 - with  her Grandmother?

Name:Mary A Thomas
Age:6
Estimated birth year:abt 1855
Relation:Granddaughter
Gender:Female
Where born:Breconshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township:Brecon Castle
Town:Brecknock
County/Island:Breconshire
Country:Wales
Street address:.
Condition as to marriage:.
Education:.
Employment status:.
Occupation:.
Registration district:Brecknock
Sub-registration district:Brecknock
ED, institution, or vessel:12
Household schedule number:2
Piece:4212
Folio:41
Page Number:2

Household Members:
Name                Age
 Margaret Thomas    54
 Mary A Thomas       6
 Henry Parry        69
 Lewis Morgan       57
 




Burrell - Mainly London area
Wallace - North-East England
Starling - London, Cambridge & Suffolk
Park - London, Derbyshire & Lancashire

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Mary Ann(e) Thomas 1856-1915
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 28 June 15 22:32 BST (UK) »
Thanks bertieburrell, that looks very promising  :)
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....


Offline despair

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Re: Mary Ann(e) Thomas 1856-1915
« Reply #4 on: Monday 29 June 15 00:47 BST (UK) »
John Thomas,born 1804,married,brewer and ostler is at The Sun Inn,Wheat Street,St.Mary,Brecknock in 1851,but not with Maria.

HO107/2849/420/7

It looks like he is still there in 1861,but now described as unmarried and a brewer(though one major site has it as crewer(sic))

RG09/4212/110/30

There is a death in 1856 for a Maria Thomas in Merthyr Tydfil district - I wonder if this is a possible explanation.

Regards
Roger

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Mary Ann(e) Thomas 1856-1915
« Reply #5 on: Monday 29 June 15 03:59 BST (UK) »
Thanks Roger, don't know how i missed that 1851, thought i'd looked at all the John Thomas entries in Brecknock.

I'll forward a query re the Maria death to my email to Merthyr.

Thanks again,

Deirdre
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Mary Ann(e) Thomas 1856-1915
« Reply #6 on: Monday 29 June 15 19:51 BST (UK) »
Thanks to bertieburrell and Roger, this is looking good, though nothing confirmed yet.

Put into a timeline:
1850 - DecQ: marriage of a John Thomas and Maria Evans in Merthyr Tydfil
1851 - census: John, 47, married, born Herefordshire, servant, brewer and ostler in the Sun Inn, Wheat St, Brecon
1856 - birth and baptism of daughter Mary Ann, father John a brewer and ostler, of Three Cocks Lane, Brecon.
1856 - death of a Maria Thomas in Merthyr in SeptQ 1856
1861 - census: John, unmarried, born Brecon, servant, brewer in the Sun Inn, Wheat St, Brecon; also a Mary A Thomas, aged 6, living with her grandmother in Brecon.
1876 - marriage of Mary Ann, father John listed as deceased coachman.

While the timeline looks good, there are a few puzzles...
- John is older than I expected, presumably Maria was younger than him
- different places of birth shown for John in 1851 and 1861, and unmarried in 1861 (but surely this is the same man)
- Mary Ann's birth and baptism give an address of Three Cocks Lane - in the middle of the 2 censuses when John is in the Sun Inn, Wheat Street.

There are a number of deaths for a John Thomas in Brecon between 1861 and 1876, so I'll look for him in 1871 to narrow it down (big help to have his age ;D), for Maria on her own in 1851, and wait to hear from Merthyr Tydfil CBC re the marriage and death.

CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline despair

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Re: Mary Ann(e) Thomas 1856-1915
« Reply #7 on: Monday 29 June 15 19:58 BST (UK) »
There are these two other references that may be relevant?

http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/4347514/ART35/three%20cocks%20lane


http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/4349509/ART2/three%20cocks%20lane

I will recheck but my memory of looking at the census transcriptions,"Three Cocks Street" was listed next to Wheat Street.

Regards
Roger


Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Mary Ann(e) Thomas 1856-1915
« Reply #8 on: Monday 29 June 15 20:27 BST (UK) »
Thanks Roger,

I've just browsed the censuses and yes, Three Cocks St is listed after Wheat St in 1851 (just one entry though, strangely with 2 sisters named Thomas), and Three Cocks after Wheat St in 1861, but with a lot more entries (and several coachmen).

I thought I'd found Three Cocks Lane leading away from Brecon - around Llanddew where Mary Ann says she was born in the 1881 census - (and there's a place called Three Cocks to the north east), but I can't find it now.

Deirdre   
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....