William Williams, born 1885/86 in Pwllheli

[Deirdre784]

Hoping someone can have a look at this for me, and let me know what you think…

Having found William’s 2nd marriage in 1920 (living at 13 William Street , Cilfynydd), father’s name not given, I didn’t really expect to get back any further but the 1918 electoral register gave  his first wife’s name as Ellen. And there they were in 1911 (though not picked up on Ancestry).

I’ve found Ellen in 1891 and 1901 and am not looking for anything further on her.
 
This is ‘our’ William in 1911:
1911 RG14 32216 195
13 William Street, Cilfynydd, Pontypridd
William Williams, head, 25, 1886, married, coal miner/hewer, Pwllheli
Ellen Williams, wife, 27, married, Newboro, Anglesey
William Roberts, lodger

So looking back through the censuses I found:

1901 RG13 5265 35 19
Quay, Denio, Pwllheli
Margaret Griffith, Head, Single, Female, 60, 1841, Wash Woman, Bryncroes
Mary Ann Griffith, Daughter, Single, Female, 34, 1867, Char Woman, Pwllheli
William Williams, Son, Single, Male, 14, 1887, Butcher, Pwllheli
Laura Griffith, Daughter, -, Female, 6, 1895, -, Pwllheli
Robert Griffith, Son, -, Male, 4, 1897, -, Pwllheli
[Presumably William, Laura and Robert are Mary Ann’s children (or Margaret’s grandchildren)]

1891 RG12 4651 81 11
Mitre Place, Denio, Pwllheli
Margaret Griffith, Head, Single, Female, 51, 1840, Charwoman, Bryncroes
Mary Ann Griffith, Daughter, Single, Female, 25, 1866, - , Pwllheli
William Williams, Grandson, -, Male, 4, 1887, -, Pwllheli
Evan Griffith, Grandson, -, Male, 2, 1889, -, Pwllheli [can’t find Evan again]

1881 RG11 5557 50 23
Ysgiffton, Denio, Pwllheli
Margaret Griffith, Head, Single, Female, 37, 1844, General Servant, Bryncroes
Robert G or H Williams, Son, Single, Male, 12, 1869, Scholar, Pwllheli
[I can’t find Mary Ann in 1881]

1871 RG10 5705 30 9
Ala Rd workhouse, Denio, Pwllheli
Margaret Griffith, Inmate, Unm, Female, 28, 1843, Charwoman, Bryncroes
Mary Ann Griffith, Inmate, Unm, Female, 6, 1865, scholar, Pwllheli
Robert Griffith, Inmate, Unm, Male, 2, 1869, infant, Pwllheli

Ages vary a little and William's surname is Williams or Griffith but otherwise it all seemed to fit with no known father. But then I looked for Margaret and Mary Ann in 1911 and this has thrown me – clearly the same Margaret, Mary Ann, Laura and Robert as in the 1901 but who is the other William as mine is married and in Cilfynydd? And the info on the children, and Margaret a widow. Or have I got the wrong 1901 for my William?

1911 RG14 629 4
3 Glanafon Square, Sand St, Denio, Pwllheli
Margaret Griffith, Wife, Widow, Female, -, 71, 1840, Bryncroes [says married 20 years, 2 children, 1 has died, but this has been crossed out]
Mary Ann Griffith, Daughter, Single, Female, - 42, 1869, Pwllheli [says 3 children, all still alive, but crossed out]
William Griffith, Son, Single, Male, Sett Maker, 22, 1889, Pwllheli
Laura Griffith, Daughter, Single, Female, -, 16, 1895, Pwllheli 
Robert Griffith, Son, Single, Male, Shop Apprentice, 14, 1897, Pwllheli

Any help much appreciated, with thanks.

Deirdre

[EmyrBorth]

Hi
Reason why Ancestry 1911 did not 'pick it up' is that the surname has been mistranscribed as 'Williamas' .
Will submit correction.
Emyr

[Deirdre784]

I've just found a record on the Wales births and baptisms (1541-1907) for a Mary Griffith, born 25 Sep 1864 to Margaret Griffith in the union workhouse at Pwllheli. A bit earlier than I was expecting but given that Margaret and Mary Ann were in the workhouse in 1871 this could be her.

[Deirdre784]

Hi
Reason why Ancestry 1911 did not 'pick it up' is that the surname has been mistranscribed as 'Williamas' .
Will submit correction.
Emyr

Thanks Emyr, I found it on FindMyPast earlier, then used the previous record to find it on Ancestry.

[EmyrBorth]

Hi
Have submitted correction.
With a common name and surname, and inaccuracy of recorded info, it makes it difficult to know whether or not you've got the right family. It appears to me that the first marriage was Pontypridd Registration District, Q3 1909, to Ellen Lewis - is that correct ? Do you know if there's a father's name recorded in first marriage? Problem is that it gets expensive buying these certificates. If you think of getting a copy best to check with the local Registry Office first to find if there is a father's name recorded.
Emyr

[Deirdre784]

Hi Emyr, I believe so, not 1910 as Ancestry has transcribed (though the census form does say 1 year 7 months). I wasn't intending getting the William / Ellen marriage - which I only discovered yesterday - as my husband is descended from his 2nd marriage, but that's a good idea. I'll email Pontypridd register office and ask them if there's a father's name on that certificate.

[Deirdre784]

Fantastic service from the RCT register office in Pontypridd - had a reply already to my email last night. But it was a surprise as yes, there is a father named - for both parties - on the William / Ellen marriage! So I've ordered the certificate and will eagerly await its arrival....

[Deirdre784]

Marriage certificate arrived this morning, William's father was William Williams (deceased), farmer.

Can't find them together in Pwllheli in 1891 though

Deirdre

[EmyrBorth]

Hi
Been out since late morning, so it's now that I'm seeing your reply. The father's name being a common one makes it difficult, but on the plus side we know that he was a farmer.
I'll see if I can trace his family, but won't be till tomorrow. Just about to have my evening meal and have run a mountain race today which took me 1: 45:30 , so I'm a bit knackered being 70+ !
Emyr