John Owen(s), born around 1827 in Haverfordwest

[Deirdre784]

Hi Charles, and welcome to RootsChat. Will look up the dates and get back to you later.

Deirdre

[Deirdre784]

Hi again Charles,

At Prendergast, on 17 Jun 1787, Joseph, son of Joseph and Elizabeth Owens, who was privately baptised on 30 April last, was brought to church.

Deirdre

[Deirdre784]

Also at Prendergast, children of Joseph and Elizabeth...
John, baptised 7 July 1781, buried 28 Jan 1782
John, baptised 24 Nov 1782
William, baptised privately on 28 Nov 1784, publicly on 12 June 1785
James, baptised 9 Dec 1788 (likely to be my 3 great grandfather)
Martha, no baptism found, buried on 16 Mar 1792
Rees, no baptism found, buried on 4 April 1792
Rees, baptised on 7 June 1793, at 3 months
Martha, baptised on 31 May 1795, at 3 months

Burial on 13 Feb 1824 of Elizabeth Owens, aged 76, of Prendergast village, aged 76 and Joseph on 15 Oct 1838 aged 93, of Prendergast village. Can't confirm that this is the same Joseph and Elizabeth as their age at death would mean they were both in their 30s when they married, though presumably just about possible as Elizabeth would have been 47 when Martha was born.

Sadly I can't prove that they are my ancestors but have them in my tree as 'possibles' ...

Re-reading your post, I have John baptised in 1782 not 1786; could this be the same person? No other info on John sorry.

[asterix57]

Hi Deirdre,

Thank you, Deirdre: that is really helpful! Until yesterday I was unaware there were any PRs for Prendergast, so assumed I had hit a dead end.

That will definitely be the right John: I was only guessing 1786 as his birthdate (but given that he married in 1805 I wasn't thinking straight). I suppose I was influenced by the fact that the 1841 census shows a 55-year old John Owen, sieve maker, living in Prendergast - who may have been John returning to his birthplace.

Have you found your John in the 1851 census yet? Obviously if you can it would provide his birthplace. It does seem that the shoemaking is a recurring theme running through the family [sieve maker may be a red herring!], and would appear to tie his ?father James to Prendergast and the family there.

I note what you say about Joseph and Elizabeth being relatively old at the time of their marriage, but perhaps they couldn't afford to until they were older. And although Owen(s) is not exactly an uncommon surname in Wales, I believe Prendergast was a pretty small village in those days.

best wishes

Charles

[Deirdre784]

Hi Charles, pleased that helps. Guess we could be distantly related then?

Can't find my John in Pembrokeshire in 1851 but the one Ciderdrinker found earlier in Neath looks a good bet. Born Haverfordwest.

Later censuses say he was born in Haverfordwest or the county of Pembroke (and one ditto under his daughter says born Llanhowell but i think that's a mistake). Would have been good if even one said Prendergast, though without knowing the area it does appear to be part of Haverfordwest. My John wasn't a shoemaker either so nothing ties him to the family. Nor names of his children (Jane and Elizabeth).

While i therefore can't confirm it, it all looks a good fit. John's marriage in 1852 says father was James a shoemaker (doesn't say deceased, though i know it doesn't always). Can't find a shoemaker called James in Pembs in 1841 or 1851. Not sure what else I can look for now, so it's in my tree as possible until anything else comes along (to confirm or deny).

How did you find your John in Bristol? Had he moved there? And later family in Bristol or did he stay in Prendergast after 1841?

Deirdre

[Deirdre784]

The other thing I noticed is that they all signed their names in the marriage register, though sadly my John didn't, though if his parents had both died by the time he was 6, I guess that hugely affected whatever happened to him and his 2 younger siblings afterwards. 

[asterix57]

Deirdre,

Yes, we would be distantly related: John (b 1786) was my 4xgreatgrandfather, so if his brother James is the same relation to you then we would be fifth cousins.

My Owens moved around a great deal. My 2xggm Mary was born in Prendergast in 1838, but lived most of her life in Peterborough, where her parents lived before - and after - her birth. I managed to find her father Joseph in the 1851 census which gave his birthplace as Bristol. He married a girl from Somerset in 1805, but she appears to have died in 1809, and I don't know for certain where he and his son Joseph went after that. But whereas I can understand someone leaving a small village for a larger city like Bristol (or Peterborough) the fact that the family went back to Prendergast for 3-4 years strongly suggested to me that that is where they originated from, i.e. why else would they go back there?! And so it has proved, thanks to your filling me in. (Btw, I have just come across the baptism of a Joseph at Lambston, a mere 4.5 miles from Prendergast, on 6.2.1744/5 - but I don't have a FindMyPast sub to access the detail).

I have come across several census references to Haverfordwest, which on closer inspection turned out to be Prendergast: hardly surprising given that the former is so much bigger and more recognisable to those far away. So I would not be surprised if the same was true in your case.

What I meant about the shoemaker connection was that if John's father James was a shoemaker, then my bet would be that he had learned that trade from his family in Prendergast - as both Joseph (b 1806) and his uncle Joseph (b 1787) were shoemakers. Sometimes I just find I have to use my imagination to bridge the gap across missing documents, standing back and thinking what the balance of probability is. Moreover, his absence from Pembs - while frustrating - may not be surprising as other family members clearly moved away to seek a living. But it does make it harder to track them down!

[Deirdre784]

Great, I have found very few relatives on that side of my family. Thanks for the info and advice.

The Lambston baptism is for Joseph, son of Henry Owen and Mary his wife. No other details.

Six other children... Thomas, Martha, William, Charles, Sarah and John.

Deirdre

[asterix57]

Interesting. May just be coincidence, but Joseph (b 1806)'s son was Henry Joseph Owen (b 1831), which otherwise looked like a departure from the John/Joseph norm.

btw, I wasn't thinking clearly: if we share a 5x ggf (Joseph born ?1745) we would be 6th cousins.