Armagh Town, What Parish?

[ray2]

Hi,
Could someone please help me here, trying to figure out what Parish or Parish's the Town of Armagh is in!

My g. grandfather William Smith was said to be born there in c.1865. Parents were Thomas Smith and Catherine Templeton. Got this information from the Mitchell Library in Glasgow in the Poor Law records for his widow who he married in Glasgow. It also stated he was R.C.

Any pointers would be great thanks, I'm clueless and bleary eyed, having spent the whole of yesterday looking through the numerous new Catholic records in the County of Armagh.

Thanks again,
Ray

[gaffy]

Was he definitely born in Armagh the county town? On the nli website, have a look at these folk in Drumcree parish, are they a possibility? (can't see William yet):

- a marriage of a Thomas Smyth to Catherine Tenpenny on 6 February 1853;
- a baptism for David of Thomas Smyth and Katherine Tenpenny on 8 January 1854;
- a baptism for Elizabeth of Thomas Smyth and Catherine Tenpenny on 1 July 1856;
- a baptism for Rosanne of Thomas Smyth and Catherine Tenpenny on 13 March 1864.

GRONI online might have William (civil registration of births commenced 1864), it was down for maintenance when I tried earlier.
   

[ray2]

Thanks for the reply Gaffy, and your efforts in the lookups!

Have just found William Smith's death record on Scotlandspeople. Died 1903 in Glasgow aged 40, as in the Poor Law records (wife gave age as 3 years younger in that one), his wife gives his parents names as Thomas and Catherine Templeton.

However, I doubt if she ever met his parents or even ever went over to Ireland, the babies came out very quickly after she married William and they were on a low income!. Also noticed she had signed her name with an X. So wouldn't have known the difference between Tenpenny and Templeton, if she saw them in written form!

So it's possible that he was not actually from the Town of Armagh, and Tenpenny could be correct!

Thanks again,
Ray

[gaffy]

GRONI online is back and I can see births registered in Lurgan registration district for:

- Rose Smyth born 14 February 1864, mother's maiden name Tenpenny;
  (presumably Rosanne baptised 13 March 1864)
- Edward Smyth born 2 April 1866, mother's maiden name Tenpenny.

Also registered in Lurgan registration district, a John Smith born 8 September 1869, mother's maiden name Temple. No sign of William, maybe born pre start of 1864 civil birth registration.

[ray2]

Thanks gaffy for your input, and hard work. Starting to lean towards your findings!

At first, I was sceptical  of the difference of the names Templeton and Tenpenny. Then in thought, an Armagh man talking to a Glasgow lass, the two names could sound similar! Williams wife, Margaret Horne (my g. grandmother), was obviously not an educated woman, as in signing her name on her husbands death certificate with an X. As she probably couldn't read, she must have only went by the sound of a word. Wonder if she associated the name Tenpenny by sound, or was influenced by the famous Templeton's Carpet Factory in Glasgow at that time!

She never remarried, and according to my mother, would only answer to the name of Mrs. Smith, even after Williams death 46 years earlier.

Thanks again,
Ray McLaughlin

[gaffy]

Out of interest, have you seen the marriage record for William Smith and Margaret Horne? That should give his mother's maiden surname.

It should also give his father's occupation, the reason that I mention this is that I can definitely confirm that the Thomas Smith married to Catherine Tenpenny was a shoemaker in the 1860s (from the birth records for Rose and Edward), which wasn't  uncommon as an occupation in Ireland at that time, but was a lot less common many other occupations like labourer or weaver...

[ray2]

Thank you,
Have tried, unsuccessfully on Scotlandspeople to find the marriage of William Smith and Margaret Horne. Even using  many wildcards on the names for both of them! Using the Catholic, and also the 1855- 2014 records, nothing comes up!

According to the Poor Law records in the Mitchell Library in Glasgow, given by my g. grandmother Margaret Horn*. They were married in 1891 in St. Patrick's R.C. Church, Anderston, Glasgow.

The one thing you've given me some more hope for. Thomas Smith was a Shoemaker on his sons death certificate!

Thanks again,
Ray

[annclare]

Another piece of information Birth for Rose Ann daughter of Thomas Smyth shoemaker and Catherine Tenpenny shown as 1864 with address Portadown. Portadown parish records would be in Drumcree R.C.parish.
annclare

[gaffy]

... They were married in 1891 in St. Patrick's R.C. Church, Anderston, Glasgow ...

Got it, it's under statutory marriages for William Smyth to Margaret Hurn in 1891 (5 October) in Anderston, Glasgow. Can't post details here due to copyright, but hope this helps find it.