Joseph Morris Rochdale, Lancashire, England

[msbonbon65]

Hi,

I am 100% certain the 1841 Newport, Shropshire, England Census is my family because of information supplied by my great, great, grandmother Mary Morris Crowe in her Civil War Widow's Pension Files. It details how she and Michael Crowe came to the US and the depositions given by her brother Michael Morris detail his movements from 1853-1866 when he left England for America.

Michael Morris married Mary Geraughty in Stockport, Cheshire, England in Jan 1853, they had 5 children;

Anne Morris  2 Feb 1854          Stockport, Cheshire, England   (Baptism)

Mary Morris  8 Jan 1856           Stockport, Cheshire, England   (Baptism)

Margaret Morris  January 1858  Liverpool, Lancashire, England  (England & Wales FreeBMD)

John Morris   11 July 1860        Liverpool, Lancashire, England  (Baptism)

Ellen Morris Jan 1862               Liverpool, Lancashire, England  (England & Wales FreeBMD)


Michael Morris  Passenger List   May 1866 Arrived New York City

Michael Morris  1870 New Bedford, Mass Census (last name misspelled Maurice)

Michael Morris  1875 Cumberland, Rhode Island Census with Family who arrived in 1870


Mary Morris CROWE 1875 Cumberland, Rhode Island Census  (mother is on here listed after Mary's children; John Michael, Joseph, Margaret and Michael)

My great, grandfather Joseph Crowe was part IRISH and part ENGLISH, his father Michael John Crowe was from Dublin, Ireland so the English was from his mother Mary Morris Crowe whose father was English born in Rochdale, Lancashire and was baptized in the Blackwater Street Presbyterian Church there per the information on the parish register. John Morris also married Maria Gallagher in the same church he was baptized in. Maria Gallagher was Irish hence, the Catholic Baptisms for the children & Irish naming of the daughters, Mary, Catherine, Bridget, and Margaret.


John Morris married Mary Downes 1 Oct 1829  St Mary's Burford, Shropshire


I found birth records for 2 John Morris born in MUCH COWARNE, Herefordshire

John Morris
  3 Sept 1800  Much Cowarne, Herefordshire, England
     Parents:  Thomas Morris, Mary

John Morris
  1 Dec 1802  Much Cowarne, Herefordshire, England
     Parents:  John Morris, Mary

The birth date on the 1851-1871 censuses for John Morris is 1801 so it could be either, does the marriage record that was found have any parents listed on it?

Maria

[heywood]

Hello again,

Mary Morris Crowe was English so that would account for the part English.
Her parents though, according to 1841 census were Irish.

I was just going to post re the other John and Mary in  Burford.

1871 3039/6/4
Living at Lodge Farm, Burford.

1880 death of John Morris.

February 1881
Administration (with will ) of John Morris, late of the Lodge, Burford granted to son John.
You could get a copy of this will.

There is a baptism 1830 of John to John and Mary.

1871 3039/7/6 transcribed as Marris. John Morris is living at The Farm, Burford.
He is on the same page as Thomas Morris living at The Bank Farm.

They are at these farms in 1881.

I think these are the family of John Morris and Mary Downes.
Your family seem to be John Morris and Mary Gallagher.

Additionally, I doubt very much that any are connected to Joseph and Clarissa Morris.
The Rochdale marriage looks like Callagha which could be Callaghan.

Do you have a birth certificate for your Mary?
You could compare it to a certificate for one of the Burford children re mother's name.

Heywood

[mosiefish]

Hi Maria,

I believe I have now found the John and Mary Morris of Burford on the 1841 census.  They are in High Bagot/Baggott/Baggot .  It may not look correct at first glance but later events confirm it. Edward and Emmas age have been transposed.  Emma was 9 and Edward 6.

Hope
John Morris, 35 Gardener
Mary, 35,
Ed`d, 9
Emma, 6
Tho`s, 3 months
Young John was possibly in Nash, parish of Burford, earning his living but I can`t spot George as yet.
Ages above 15 were rounded down to 0 or 5

Church of England Baptisms in High Baggot
Parents John and Mary Morris Labourer
Emma, 23rd October, 1831
Edward 24th November, 1834
George born 14th May, 1837 baptised 3rd June, 1838
Thomas baptised 7th March, 1841

Church of England Marriages
1854 at Whitton Chapel, Burford,
Edward Morris aged 19 married Mary Clent Father John Morris Farmer
1860 at St,  Mary`s, Burford
Emma Morris of The Lodge, Burford married Thomas Brown Father John Morris Farmer
1864 at St. Mary`s, Burford
George Morris of The Lodge, Burford married Mary Ann Beaumont Father John Morris Farmer
1865 at St Mary   `s Burford
Thomas Morris of Burford aged 24 Farmer married Julia Dolphin Father John Morris Farmer.

Oh! and Mother Mary Morris died on the 17th February, 1880 at Lodge Farm, Burford.

I think we can safely say that the family was definitely Church of England not Roman Catholic and not connected to your family in Newport.

Regarding the 1851 census for your Mary.  If you navigate back a few pages to page 1 you will find that the return was for the occupants of the “Chester House of Industry”  otherwise known as the Workhouse.  Census reference HO107/2172 folios 411 – 418.  Mary Morris aged 9 born Newport, Salop appears on folio 416 page 8. 

Like Heywood says you definitely need some certificates.

Kind regards,
Mo

[msbonbon65]

Hi,

Mary Morris Crowe was Half Irish and Half English, one parent was English and one was Irish, despite the 1841 Census showing Ireland for BOTH parents the information for John Morris is not correct. Her brother Michael Morris is on the 1841 census this is the only census for John and Mary Morris with a son Michael Morris on it in SHROPSHIRE. I have the correct census since the birth certificates for the children on the 1841 census show they are the children of John Morris and Maria Gallagher, born in Newport, Shropshire just as my great, great grandmother was and I have her birth record confirming her birth 1 Feb 1842 Newport, Shropshire, England.

As to the marriage of John Morris and Maria Gallagher, I too thought it might be Callaghan, but there are NO birth records for any children with John Morris and Mary Callaghan as parents. I have found my great, great, great grandparents children whose birth records show John Morris and Mary Gallagher. I'll look and see if there is a Mary Callaghan in Rochdale.

Maria

[heywood]

Hi Maria,

I think Mo would agree with me that you have the right 1841 census for Mary's parents.
The census does say though that both John and Mary are born in Ireland.
I don't understand why you think it is not correct.

Mary was English because she was born in England.

It will be difficult to find birth records in Rochdale or Oldham for children using a mother's maiden name unless you can find Catholic records which generally show that.
I don't think they are online - Oldham's aren't anyway.
Heywood

[mosiefish]

Yes, I do agree with you on all points Heywood. 

Maria you do realise that ages were rounded down on the 1841 census so your John could have been aged 40 - 44? 

Mo

[msbonbon65]

Hi,
 
Mosiefish, in locating an 1841 census for John & Mary Morris in Burford you have hit upon the fly in the ointment, George born 1838 he can not be located on an 1841 census with parents John & Mary born in Herefordshire and Shropshire. There are a number of people on ancestry.com researching them, but they have no 1841 census, anyway from what you've found it appears that all I have is an 1841 census and nothing else for my family; back to square one.

My apologies Heywood, I had an Ancestry DNA test done it shows 34% Irish and 28% Great Britain, I was thinking ethnicity half and half, I totally overlooked the fact that as my great, great grandmother was born in England she would be considered English.

Ok, any ideas on how to locate the correct 1851 census with zero information on what happened to my family between 1851-1871? I do know Mary Gallagher Morris made it to Rhode Island as she is on the 1875 Census for Cumberland, RI and she is a widow so John Morris died prior to 1875; while Mary died in July 1877 in Cumberland, RI.

I've been banging at this for 2 years and still can't nail this down any help with the 1851 census be appreciated.

Maria

[heywood]

Hi Maria,
I keep searching for Mary Gallagher Morris in 1861 and 1871 and haven't found her yet.

If you go back to reply #5, Mo gives a couple of possible deaths for Maria Morris and John Morris. We thought then that Mary was deceased so Maria may not be relevant.
At that time ages weren't shown on the index so you would probably have to go for a certificate for John.
Maybe Mary wasn't well or for some reason not able to care for young Mary as she is in the workhouse. It might have only been a temporary stay.
Heywood

[msbonbon65]

Heywood

Mary Gallagher Morris was living with her daughter Mary Morris Crowe in Cumberland, Providence, Rhode Island she is on the 1875 census for her daughter Mary Morris Crowe.

Maria Gallagher Morris died 16 July 1877 Cumberland, Providence, Rhode Island I have the death record.

Mary Morris Crowe died 1 May 1926 Cumberland, Providence, Rhode Island I have the death record

The Mary's are accounted for as far as death information, I need John Morris date of death and the 1851-1871 census for Mary and John Morris. However, depending on John's death date he may not be on all the census. I'll look again at answer #5 and see what Mo has for John's death dates.

Thanks! Maria