Joseph 'Harelip' Matthews - showman

[Charmain Marie Mitchell]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone can help with this? I am researching my great great grandfather who was called 'Job Matthews' who married Matilda Collins. Job was born in 1952/3 and died 1918 or 1921. Now I was told his father was James and Lydia Mathews, but the trouble is when I look on ancestry it links the family to Joseph 'Harelip' Matthews, which is all well and good, but his wife was called 'Flash Ria' or Maria Harris. I'm not sure if someone has added the wrong wife to Joseph or if this is correct and I have got the wrong family?

Any help would be great!

Thanks,

Charmain.

[jaybelnz]

Hi Charmain, welcome to Rootschat!  I'm sure you'll get some good assistance on here, it's a great little community!

I would advise that you really need to purchase his birth certificate, to be sure of the parents.  They show the names of both parents.  Unless there is an official source on an Ancestry tree, like an image of the cert, as some do, and you are very certain,  you can't risk taking it as correct!  Sometimes they look really likely, sometimes not, and in your case you feel it's not right! So go with your instinct and try and find a birth certificate.

Once you have that you may want to get his marriage cert as well, to verify that what you have been told is correct!   And that will also give you the bride's parents as well as the grooms, and possibly take you back another generation.

Always pays to have a little fund set aside for purchasing certs!

NB - check the birth dates you have noted here for Job!  You have him dying before he was born!   

Good luck, and might I just recommend that you don't ignore variations in the spelling of Mathews! That's my family name, and have had Mathews, Matthews, Mathues, even Marten, especially in transcriptions, but not always necessarily so. So keep an open mind on that too! 

If you know where he was born, and we have the right year, and location, post it in here - there's a very good chance someone will be come along to advise you where the record can be ordered from!

Happy hunting
Jeanne

[BumbleB]

Welcome!

There is a birth registration in Weymouth Registration District, 5a, page 313 - September quarter 1852 - Job Matthews

Information from FreeBMD.

Plus a death registration in Alton Registration District, 2c, page 303 - March quarter 1915 - Job Matthews aged 51 (so age for this is 10 years out!!!!)

[BumbleB]

Query - we are talking England and Wales, aren't we?

If I enter bride's name of Matilda Collins, and groom's surname of Matthews and dates 1865 - 1900, I receive one hit

December quarter 1877 - Isle of Wight Registration District, 2b page 1133.  Matilda Louisa Collins, but the Matthews on the same page is William Edgar Matthews

[cath151]

There is a post re Matthews on Rootschat that may or may not help, search for Lydia Gowan 
Cathy

[swingboats]

hi charmain my gr granddad was joe [harelip] Matthews whos wife was ria harris there sons was joe john moses billy and henry sorry no job if I can help in any way please feel free to ask regards george

[Charmain Marie Mitchell]

Hi and thank you all so much for your replies. I have found several other bits of info and I now think that the Job Mathews I'm talking about was probably the son of James 'Jemmy' Matthews the son of James Matthews and Lydia Gowan.

I found this on Romany Jib:

Caravan 3

(I think this might be Joseph 'Harelip' Matthews)

Job Matthews ........29 b 1862 Mitcham, Surrey Travelling Gypsies
Maria ...............26 b 1865 Surbiton, Surrey
Edward............... 7 b 1884 Reigate?, Surrey
Louise................5 b 1886 Epsom, Surrey
Bertha ...............4 b 1887 Epsom, Surrey
John .................2 b 1889 Mitcham, Surrey
+
Alfred Bond..........30 b 1861 Nk -travelling gipsies
Amy..................25 b 1866 epsom
Alfred................4 b 1887 Hastings
Reuben................2 b 1889 Crowberry sussex
+
Reuben Mann..........35 b 1856 Nk
Amy..................33 b 1858 Nk
eliza................10 b 1881 Hastings
Martha................8 b 1883 Windsor
Louisa...............13 b 1878 kingston
Caroline.............14 b 1877 kingston
john.................22 b 1869 kingston -brother
+

(This is my great great granddad and family)

Job Matthews ........37 b 1854 Horsham, Surrey- Travelling Gypsies
Mathilda ............36 b 1855 Horsham
James ...............16 b 1876 Leatherhead, surrey "
Mary.................14 b 1877 Aldershot, Surrey "
Job .................12 b 1879 Epsom, Surrey "
Alice ...............10 b 1881 Guildford, Surrey "
*
Charles Matthews.....35 b 1856 N/K Travelling Gypsies
Alfred ...............9 b 1882 North Camp (Aldershot) "
Betsey ...............7 b 1884 Witchurch "
Fanny................ 4 b 1887 Sussex "
Lamy .................1 b 1890 Winchester, Hants "

I also found this on this forum which suggests that Job Matthews was James 'Jemmy' Matthews son :-)

Re: Charles and James Matthews marriages
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 06 March 10 12:05 GMT (UK) »
Quote

Hi again Nel

I've tracked down some additional old notes on Fam(e)bridge Matthews, again received from Frances Brown:

Frances - who is a Matthews descendant and expert – says that the couple had the following children:

- Job (1855-1907), married a Matilda
- Bill, possibly married a woman with the surname Purry
- Mary Ann, married William Smith
- Tilda, married a Hedges
- Lydia, buried Elstead, Surrey, 8 March 1906 aged 36

Famebridge was buried in Elstead in April 1913, aged 82.

Independently, I've also found James and Famebridge in the 1901 and 1911 censuses:

- in 1901 at Thursley, Surrey (RG13 618 folio 16), where FindMyPast have transcribed Fambridge's name as Phamal. Here some of the couple's children seem to be part of a sizeable encampment with them

- in 1911 at Deadwater, Bordon Camp, Hants, where Fambridge's name is indexed by FindMyPast as Fanbridge Matthews.

The birthplaces in these censuses suggest that James and Famebridge were Sussex people, rather than the Yorkshire indication of 1871, and travelled through Sussex, Surrey, Hampshire and Kent.

Best wishes
Sharon

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Please let me know if any of you think this could be likely :-)

Charmain x

[Helen Collins]

Hi charmaine ..I looked up granny's family tree and my grandad jacks mum was Matilda mathews, who had a sister Lydia ..fambridge was my granny Matilda mum x

[Helen Collins]

Hi..my mums family..my grandad was jack hedges...son of Matilda hedges,,mathews by birth.her sister was Lydia and my mums great granny was fambridge and vanus as he was known