Pronouncing Welsh Gaelic

[Sinann]

There was me thinking Scots was the Ulster form of Scottish Gaelic.
I'm so glad I asked, thank you osprey.

So if I have this (very generalised) correct there is Scottish Gaelic, Scots and Ulster Scots. With Scots and Ulster Scots having the same European / Lowlands origins, while Scottish Gaelic having Celtic / Highlands origins.

[KGarrad]

Welsh is a phonetic language - every letter is pronounced!

There's a reasonable guide here:
http://www.cyclingwales.co.uk/welsh.html

And (usually!) the emphasis is on the penultimate syllable.
NEW-port
Aber-YST-wyth
Llan-DUD-no (say it as Llan-DID-no!)

Newport is the English language  name.

The No  at the end of Llandudno    is a soft no   .... Not like know  or No as in negative.   But like the       the letter "O"   in Knobbly.     If you travel  on Arriva trains Wales to Llandudno  they announce  the stops first in one language and secondly in the other language.

Very true - but I wanted to ensure that it was NOT pronounced as Llan-dud-no!


And I know very well that Casnewydd is the Welsh name for Newport - I used to watch speedway there!
Then, later, I worked at Pontllanfraith, in Monmouthshire.
And my colleagues made sure I could correctly pronounce all the towns & villages I drove through - just so that I didn't sound like a tourist if I had to ring the AA!

Newport was easy enough, as was Risca and Wattsville.
Cwmfelinfach was a little tricky at first; but Ynysddu trips up most English people!

[bibliotaphist]

Here's another guide to the pronunciation of Welsh names, with audio clips.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/livinginwales/sites/howdoisay/names/

[ThrelfallYorky]

Oh dear - I started reading this hoping I might manage to do more than spluttering sounds when even trying to read the Welsh part of bilingual road signs - I think I'll give up right now. Fortunately not many Welsh ancestors to offend. But I'd also have assumed it was a Celtic language, rather than Gaelic

[Hackstaple]

I suppose that someone has pointed out that Welsh is not a Gaelic language. There are very few similarities even in noun forms and similarities virtually exist only in the terms for familial relationships. Those however are found in many Indo-European languages - see table below. Welsh is a Celtic tongue and many words of closely similar origin are found in Brittany and Cornwall. Some of those Brythonic words can be found in French such as Eglise (Welsh Eglwys) and Ecole (Welsh Ysgol).

http://www.omniglot.com/language/kinship/celtic.htm

[Elwyn Soutter]

There was me thinking Scots was the Ulster form of Scottish Gaelic.
I'm so glad I asked, thank you osprey.

So if I have this (very generalised) correct there is Scottish Gaelic, Scots and Ulster Scots. With Scots and Ulster Scots having the same European / Lowlands origins, while Scottish Gaelic having Celtic / Highlands origins.

The language that is known today as Gaelic in Scotland was taken there by Irish settlers from the Scoti tribe in modern Co. Antrim, led by Fergus Mor in 495AD, who set up the Kingdom of Dalriada, with its capital at Dunadd near modern Oban. Up to that point the natives of Scotland had spoken Welsh, or a form of Welsh. Over the next 300 or so, the Irish Gaelic or Erse, gradually replaced Welsh, leaving it as the dominant language in the country. Quite how this was achieved with (apparently) no warfare remains something of a mystery, but it’s what appears to have happened.

So Scottish Gaelic is simply a variation of Irish Gaelic. Incidentally, in addition to giving Scotland it’s language, the Scoti settlers also gave the country it’s name “Scot land”. So Scotland is actually named after an Irish tribe.

At one time what we would regard today as Welsh was also spoken widely across parts of England. It disappeared with the spread of English, but you see traces of it in old place names. An example being Pen-y-Ghent which is the highest hill in Yorkshire.

[IMBER]

"Up to that point the natives of Scotland had spoken Welsh, or a form of Welsh"

The Strathclyde Britons certainly did but the language of the Picts is still a matter of some debate which is unlikely to be resolved any time soon. A fascinating subject.

Imber

[Mike in Cumbria]

(Irish, Scottish Gaelic, and Manx) are also Celtic languages

This is something that has always puzzled me, I would have written this as
(Irish, Scottish, and Manx) are also Celtic languages..
Why is Gaelic added to Scottish?
I've encountered this quite often and the one Scottish person I did get a chance to ask didn't know.

Think of language groups as a tree with branches. One major branch is Indo-European which includes  many branches including Germanic, Romance, Celtic etc
The Celtic branch further splits into Gaelic and Brythonic languages.
Gaelic splits into Scots, Irish and Manx Gaelic
Brythonic splits into Welsh, Breton, Cornish and others which have died out, such as that spoken in Cumbria and Strathclyde  in historic times. A form of Brythonic was spoken across all of England before the Anglo Saxons brought their Germanic language across, and you still see traces of it in place names (Penyghent in Yorkshire) or in old sheep counting traditions - yan, tan, tethera etc.

So - Welsh is Celtic but it is not Gaelic. Because they are cousins, you do see more similarities between Welsh and, say Scots Gaelic, than you would between either of these and English.

For example
English         Welsh               Gaelic

House         Ty                      Tigh
Big              Mawr                  Mor
Small          Bach                   Beg

[ThrelfallYorky]

So: when as a youngster I was using the "Yan, tan, tethera..." sheep counting, I should really have been counting German sheep ...?
-Actually, this is really a fascinating thread, I feel that even though I'm more confused than ever, I may be learning something. I'd never made before what now seems like the logical link of French "church" and Welsh "School". Keep on teaching me, please.