Author Topic: John Shaw and Marion Grant  (Read 2405 times)

Offline J11

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 506
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
John Shaw and Marion Grant
« on: Sunday 26 July 15 19:29 BST (UK) »
I have the following two entries for Marion Grant who I believe to be my Marion Grant, born Knockando, Morayshire 1788 to my 4xGreat Grandparents William and Anne Grant.

Moray Libindx:  Shaw, Marion nee Grant c. 1787, spouse John Shaw of Strathspey, death 18th March 1871, Halton County Canada
Halton News:  Shaw - at her residence, 5th Line, Equesning, County of Halton,on the 18th inst., Marion Grant, relict of John Shaw, a native of Strathspey, Morayshire, Scotland, aged 84 years.

I have a birth for a James Grant to John Shaw and Minnie Grant in 1811 with the place of birth given as "Bridge of Curr" which is the hamlet of about 5 houses where my Marion Grant's parents had relocated by that time and is further down the Spey from Knockando near Grantown.
I can't find a marriage for Marion/Minnie to a John Shaw.
I also have the 1860 and 1870 censuses for John, James and Marion Shaw in Equesning, Ontario, Canada which shows John Shaw still alive in 1860 aged 80 so c.1780 d.o.b.  Scotlands People have thirty five John Shaw baptisms 2 years either side of that date!
I have the widow Marion's death cert in 1871 giving her place of birth as Murrayshire, Scotland.
I have James and his mother Marion buried in Fairview Cemetery, Halton County, Ontario.

I've looked at this one 'til I'm blue in the face but I'm not very good at Canada.  North East Scotland is my thing.  Could some kind soul have a go at the following:

A death cert or stone for John Shaw or anything that might indicate where in Scotland he originated.
Any information on when they emigrated to Canada.
Any information on them in Equesning in the early days.

Many thanks.


Offline JDC

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ********
  • Posts: 1,189
  • Passed away 26th June 2022.
    • View Profile
Re: John Shaw and Marion Grant
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 26 July 15 20:21 BST (UK) »


Good afternoon J11,

Equesning, Ontario, Canada is now Halton Hills. I believe it is close to Georgetown in Halton Co.. The time-frame you are referring to is pre-confederation of Canada in 1867. You may want to contact the local public library in Georgetown to see if they have any historical info on your ancestors. Here is their website addy: http://www.hhpl.on.ca/. You may want to contact the Archives of Ontario in Toronto for the same (land records, etc.). Here is their addy: http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/en/index.aspx.

There are two Shaws buried in Glen Williams cemetery in Equesning according to the OCFA site. The site addy is http://ocfa.islandnet.com/ocfa-search.php. just type in Shaw as surname and Halton as County. I don't know if these people would be a part of your group or not. You may want to contact the cemetery admin for more information.

Hope this helps,

JDC
Carpenter - B'ham Warwick,
Cole - Devon
Coy - Germany
Langmaid - Cornwall & Hants
Rayment - Herts & Kent
Holt - ? England

Offline *Sandra*

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 58,539
  • Marie Curie
    • View Profile
Re: John Shaw and Marion Grant
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 26 July 15 20:50 BST (UK) »
Hi J11,

Have you contacted Fairview Cemetery, Halton County, Ontario to see if they have any records of John Shaw in the same burial plot as James and Marion.

Ontario Genelogical Society seem to have Cemetery transcriptions for Fairview Cemetery, Halton County, Ontario - $5.00 per surname.

http://www.haltonpeel.ogs.on.ca/cemindex.htm#ES

Can't see an e-mail address at the moment but you could try a snail mail enquiry.

Sandra

Added maybe one of these e-mail addies would work

http://www.haltonhills.ca/cemeteries/
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada

Offline J11

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 506
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Shaw and Marion Grant
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 26 July 15 22:14 BST (UK) »
Thank you JDC and Sandra.  I'll follow those up.  Will add to the post if I find any more out.

Jenny


Offline Jacquie in Canada

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,714
  • Canadian, eh!
    • View Profile
Re: John Shaw and Marion Grant
« Reply #4 on: Monday 27 July 15 16:13 BST (UK) »
In case you don't have it, here's a link to James Shaw's death registration:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q93-C9YJ-771K-2

Moray Libindx:  Shaw, Marion nee Grant c. 1787, spouse John Shaw of Strathspey, death 18th March 1871, Halton County Canada

With the way this is written it seems that John Shaw was from Strathspey.

Jacquie
Canada: Patterson, Brown, Haidenger/Heidinger, Meyer, Johnston(e), Gorsuch, Kitchin/Kitchen
United States: Patterson, Smith, Brown, Vance, Bower(s), Newberry, Best, Love, Gorsuch
England (Northumberland): Brown, Whitfield, Henderson
Scotland (Glasgow, Edinburgh, Fife, East Lothian): Johnston(e), Bell, Galloway, Campbell, Robertson, Williamson, Thomson, Crawford
Germans from Russia: Haidenger/Heidinger, Meyer, Meach, Lorenz

Offline J11

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 506
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Shaw and Marion Grant
« Reply #5 on: Monday 27 July 15 23:05 BST (UK) »
Thank you.  I didn't have John or James's death records, only Marion.  Can you find John?

James baptismal entry in the combined parish of Duthil and Rothiemurchus, Invernesshire/Morayshire (the parish moves counties as the boundaries change, nightmare!) reads:
Shaw & Grant - James son to John Shaw wright at the Bridge of Curr & Minnie Grant his spouse was born Jan Ist 1811.  Unusually for Scottish Old Parish Records, it gives the date of birth rather than baptism.

Strathspey means the valley of the Spey and usually refers to the stretch from Aviemore to Grantown which would include Duthil. People were fairly mobile up, down and across the Spey.
Wiki: The term Strathspey usually refers to the upper part of the strath from the source of the Spey down to the capital, Grantown-on-Spey, whereas the Anglicised form, Speyside, refers to the area from Grantown-on-Spey to the mouth of the river at Spey Bay.
I've checked the OPRs for Shaws born in Duthil between 1770 and 1820 and there are 29, the earliest being 1776 so there are Shaws in the area but no John.  I've checked Rothiemurchus parish immediately west of Duthil and none but Inverallan on the east has two John Shaws born in 1781.



Offline Jacquie in Canada

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,714
  • Canadian, eh!
    • View Profile
Re: John Shaw and Marion Grant
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 28 July 15 07:33 BST (UK) »
On the 1861 Canada census it indicates their religion as Free Church. I think it is quite possible a very efficient clerk for the Church of Scotland made note of James' birth in the parish records but James wasn't baptized there. The Free Church of Scotland wasn't formed until later but it could be the Shaws weren't members of the Church of Scotland congregation.

Jacquie
Canada: Patterson, Brown, Haidenger/Heidinger, Meyer, Johnston(e), Gorsuch, Kitchin/Kitchen
United States: Patterson, Smith, Brown, Vance, Bower(s), Newberry, Best, Love, Gorsuch
England (Northumberland): Brown, Whitfield, Henderson
Scotland (Glasgow, Edinburgh, Fife, East Lothian): Johnston(e), Bell, Galloway, Campbell, Robertson, Williamson, Thomson, Crawford
Germans from Russia: Haidenger/Heidinger, Meyer, Meach, Lorenz

Offline J11

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 506
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Shaw and Marion Grant
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 28 July 15 09:49 BST (UK) »
You're absoutely right.  The Free Church seceded from the Established Church in 1843.   Prior to this, although most members of the congregations were Presbytereans, not all baptisms were recorded in the records.  Also, many who were not members of the Kirk were included.  The reason for this was that you had to pay to have the baptism recorded.  The poor often couldn't afford to pay so, although their children were baptised, there is no paper trail.  It is estimated that as many as a third of all baptisms in urban areas such as Glasgow weren't recorded.  On the other side, some ministers could be quite aggressive in pushing Catholics and others to record the baptisms of their children in the Session registers.  Inveravon in Banffshire, which had a large number of Catholics in the Glenlivet area of the parish, seems to have recorded most of them.  It all depended on the minister.  I think it likely the Shaw family was Presbyterean in 1811 and then broke away in 1843.  John could be one of the two 1881s in Inverallan, could not be recorded or could be born further up or down the Spey.  Oh, well... here we go again... another brickwall!  Thanks for your interest.