Dalmellington MIs?

[Famtreebuilder]

Does anyone have access to Dalmellington MIs? I know they can be consulted in certain places in Ayrshire but just wondered if anyone on here had them.  I've been looking without success for death records for a Margaret Leonard (nee McCairney) - she was on the 1851 census and nothing after that so I'm guessing she died between 1851 and 1855 when statutory registration began.  She was born c1798 in Ireland.  I'm also looking for the death of Jeremiah (also known as Darby) Leonard who I believe was her son.  Again he is on the 1851 census but his wife is listed as a widow by 1861 and again I can't find a statutory death record for him so think it must be another 1851-54 death.  He was born c1819.

It would be great if someone could look them up in MIs for me just in case (I'm not hopeful there was ever a stone but it's the last thing I can think of).  Who Margaret's parents were, whether Jeremiah is truly her son and where in Ireland they came from is one of my most enduring brick walls!  Thanks.

[greeneyedgirl]

Hi, I do nothae access to the Dalmellington MIs but I looked about and found the following;

Deaths for Margaret Leonard:

10 May 1852  Dundee,Angus
1867  nee Priestly  age 33 Kilmarnock,Ayr
9 February 1854  age 60 buried Old Dalbeth cemetery, Glasgow
* the only death of any Margaret Leonard in Ayr is the above- I checked 1851-1854 OPR records and 1855-1870 in SR records. Also,checked Catholic records to no avail.

could find no death record for Jeremiah or Darby Leonard in any of the above records.

I then looked at Irish records and found only ! birth for a Jeremiah between 1800-1820 in Cork but parents don't fit. Found 3 marriages of Margaret to Leonard but none match names or even fuzzy matching to your Margaret. Sorry, I couldn't be of more help, Kim

[Famtreebuilder]

Hi blemdookie - thanks for trying!  I've already tried looking for her death many times and come across exactly what you found.  The 1867 Margaret Leonard death is actually for Margaret's daughter - she married John Priestly in 1865 but died less than 2 years later.  The Dundee and Glasgow deaths just don't fit so I really do think she died between 1851 and 1854.  She was listed as deceased on her daughter Elizabeth's 1858 marriage record.  It's always so frustrating when they were that close to statutory registration but alas...

As for Jeremiah yes he's a real puzzle!  I've only found Jeremiah Leonards to be in Cork too but no McCairneys at all 

[greeneyedgirl]

Hi, could the 1854 burial of the Margaret in Glasgow's Old Dalbeth cemetery possibly be her? The record doesn't give much information, but if you contact Sharon Scully at the Glasgow Archdiocese office she may be able to give you more information that could identify her further. Also, is there any way Jeremiah could have gone by another name? Lastly, what was the man Margaret married 1st name? Do you believe they married in Ireland or Scotland? Did Margaret have any other children besides Jeremiah? If you can give any further info, I will look about further. Kim

[greeneyedgirl]

Hi again, was looking at variations of McCairney and came across something that struck me.

Marriage:

15 Feb 1801
Cloyne,co Cork
Jeremiah Cronin
address:Lady's Bridge
Roman Catholic
Margaret Carney
Roman Catholic
witnesses:Andrew Fitzgerald & Joseph Mullany
**notes at bottom of entry:Celeb. Rt Rev. Dr Coppinger, Husband's pet name Darby,2nd wit. pet name Jos.,this entry came from a copied register Cloyne marriages 1, but contains all information from the original register.

Then there is this;
Birth:

Jeremiah Leonard
bap: 10 May 1814
parents:Maurice Leonard & Mary Leonard
sponsors: Daniel Lyons & Margaret Cronin

Odd?   Kim

[greeneyedgirl]

Another odd bit........

Birth:

St James Dublin

Margarita Kearney
bap: 30 June 1812
parents:Christopher Kearney & Maria Conway
sponsors: Antonio Conway & Margarita Leonard


Kim

[Famtreebuilder]

Hi Kim - thanks for trying!  It's a really tough one this and has always stumped me.  It stems from a great family tale. 

I'm pretty sure that the Margaret buried in Old Dalbeth is not my Margaret as I can't see why she would be buried so far away.  She lived in Dalmellington in 1851 and the family were still there up until 1858 - they moved from Dalmellington to Kilwinning between 1858 and 1861.  At the same time, though, the Dalbeth burial can't be wholly discounted as I can't find a Margaret Leonard on the 1851 census in the Glasgow/Lanarkshire area to match the death.  It's possible my Margaret was visiting someone, died near there and was buried in Dalbeth.  I've been in touch with Sharon before for other Dalbeth burials so I'll drop her an email and check.  No harm in seeing if I can rule her out or not.

As for whether Jeremiah could have gone under another name - yes he could and yes he did!  Men named Jeremiah were often called Darby due to the way Jeremiah is pronounced in Irish Gaelic.  Anyway my Jeremiah did go by Darby.  He was on the 1851 census as Darby Leonard and listed on some of his childrens' marriages/deaths as Darby at times and Jeremiah at other times.  I have checked for a death for him under Darby though and there's nothing.

Ok full history is this:

John Leonard died in 1882 apparently aged 103!  This is an old family tale I have heard many times.  It took me a while to track him down as the family tale had him called Michael Leonard and from the wrong line.  The story had gotten confused through time but it was that he lived to 103 and every day after his 100th birthday he could go to the pub at the end of the street in Hamilton and get a free whisky.  I always thought it couldn't be true!  Anyway eventually I did find a death for a 103-year-old man named Leonard in Hamilton that matched the story!  His parents were listed as Jeremiah Leonard and Unknown Droogan.  This man was a John though and there were no Johns on that line - it turned out he was the father of the wife of the person attributed to being his son in the story.  It all got confused as his daughter Elizabeth Leonard married a man named Michael Lennan and their son ended up using the name Leonard over Lennan.  I still don't believe old John was really 104 though!  Mind you he must have looked pretty old for his age to get away with passing himself off as such!  If he was genuinely that old he would have been born c1779 in Ireland.  Here he is on the 1851 census:

Address: 84 Waterside Huts, Dalmellington
John       Lenard       Head Aged 53 Labourer at Quarry, Born Ireland
Margaret Lenard       Wife  Aged 53                              Born Ireland
Mary       Lenard       Dau  Aged 23                              Born Ireland
Margaret Lenard       Dau  Aged 18                              Born Ireland
John       Lenard       Son  Aged 28  Rail Lan                 Born Ireland
N.K.                    Lodger  Aged 62  Vagrant                 Born Ireland

I'd suspect he was older than Margaret but he would have to have been 70 by this point if he was really 103 in 1882.

Now the next "household" directly on the next line is as follows:

Address: 84 Waterside Huts, Dalmellington
Darby      Lenard      Head  Aged 32 Wagon Emptier Born Ireland
Catherine Lenard      Wife   Aged 36                        Born Ireland
Margaret  Lenard      Dau   Aged 11   Scholar           Born Ireland
Elizabeth  Lenard      Dau   Aged  4                         Born Ireland
Patrick     Lenard      Son    Aged  6                         Born Ireland
Catherine Lenard      Dau   Aged  3                          Born Ireland

So there is a Jeremiah Leonard living basically with my Leonards about the right age to be John and Margaret's son when John's father was also called Jeremiah.  Without younger Jeremiah's death I can't prove he was his son but I think it's a very good bet he was.  It's an unusual name and they're all living in the same place - it's hard to believe they're not closely related.

Anyway fast forward to 1861 and here's John again:

Address: 45 Byrehill Row
Mick         Limmon Head               Aged 35    Coal Miner Born Ireland
Elizabeth  Limmon  Wife               Aged 36                    Born Ireland
Patrick     Limmon   Son               Aged 11m                 Born Kilwinning, Ayrshire
John        Lennard   Father-in-law  Aged 60     Labourer  Born Ireland
Margaret  Lennard   Sister-in-law  Aged 24                    Born Ireland

John is going down in age here - he's just 60 now!  Only his daughter Margaret from the 1851 census is there and he is listed as a widower so we know wife Margaret has died.  She is listed as deceased on Elizabeth and Michael's 1858 marriage too so we can narrow her death down to between 1851 and 1858 and, as I say, there's no sign of it in statutory registration so presumably it was 1851-54.

[Famtreebuilder]

Elizabeth only had the one son Patrick and I know what became of his line.  Margaret as I said before married John Priestly in 1865, had one child Margaret Leonard Priestly who died as a baby and she died herself in 1867.  Looking back to the other children on the 1851 census - I know what happened to John but his wife is another mystery.  By 1861 John is on the census in Kilwinning with a wife named Esther.  She is said to be aged 37 and born in Ireland.  There are no children with them.  In 1862 John was tragically killed by injuries sustained after being buried beneath a falling wall at Eglinton Ironworks in Kilwinning. On his death certificate, however, his wife's name is listed as Jane Corrie.  His brother-in-law Michael Lennan registered his death and I would presume he would know his wife pretty well.  I've checked the original for the 1861 census and Esther is not a bad transcription.  I assumed it must just have been a mistake on the census but I have been unable to find anything further for either an Esther Leonard or a Jane Leonard (nee Corrie).  As I can't find a marriage I assume it must have taken place 1851-54 and just isn't there to be found but there's no death to match her either.  I tried the catholic registers too as it would have been a catholic marriage but nothing. 

Finally there's Mary Leonard but she's another one I have no idea what happened to.  She's on the 1851 census aged 23 but I can't find a marriage or death for her so it's possible she's a third death between 1851-54.

So going back to Old John - I won't copy all the census information up but he's listed as aged 68 in 1871 (again going down in age lol) but occupation is annuitant so he has finally stopped working as a labourer.  From 1871 to 1881 we have a crazy leap though - on the 1881 census his age is given as 102!  I kid you not.  I have seen many big age discrepancies on census returns (many of them transcription errors; these aren't as I have the originals) but 34 years of a difference is by far the largest I've ever come across. I suspect he was older than 53 in 1851 and certainly older than 60 in 1861 and 68 in 1871 but not old enough to be 102 by 1881!  My best guess is he made it into his 90s.  Without a birth I can never prove or disprove it, though, and the people at the time must have believed it so I guess I'll just let the family myth live on

[Famtreebuilder]

Thanks for the Irish records information Kim but I don't think they tie in - it is interesting to see Leonards and Carney/Kearneys together though. 
I'd suspect closer to the 1818 end.  If Margaret's age was accurate in 1851 (big if!) then 1815-1818
My John Leonard to Margaret McCairney marriage would have probably taken place 1810-1818 and is most likely.  Their probable eldest son Jeremiah's birth would have been c1818/19 then their son John c1823, daughter Elizabeth c1825, daughter Mary c1827 and daughter Margaret c1833.  There may well have been others that died as children or did not leave Ireland with the family.  I suspect they all came over to Scotland between 1848 and 1851 as Jeremiah's youngest daughter Catherine was born c1847/48 in Ireland. 

I suspect in terms of records there may be more of a chance of finding Jeremiah's marriage and his children's baptisms.  His marriage to Catherine McGirr (I've seen it as McGerr/McGeur and McGarry too) must have taken place by about 1839/40 when their daughter Margaret was born.  I'd suspect 1836-40 with again closer to 1840 being more likely.  Margaret was born c1839, Patrick c1845, Elizabeth c1846 and Catherine c1847.

With the name Jeremiah you would suspect Cork as I can only find Jeremiah Leonards in Cork but the McCairney name makes Cork unlikely.  Sadly none of the children ever list a place of birth - it's always just Ireland.