James Gillies

[Forfarian]

No - but I couldn't find any child at all, Joseph or Robert or anything else, with mother Ann Asher and no father named, born in Scotland 1852-1859, and as you say, if he was 4 in 1861 or 14 in 1871 or 24 in 1881 etc, then there should be a birth record.

[loobylooayr]

Ok - so I used my last credits    on looking at the original 1861 Census for Joseph Gillis.

He is clearly recorded as Joseph and his place of birth is - Banff  Aberchirder.
How the word Banff came to be transcribed as Aberdeenshire is beyond me 
However muttering the word Aberchirder under my breath made me realise how similar it sounds to the word Aberdeenshire. Could easily understand how Robert may have misheard the place name as a child.....but again maybe that's my vivid imagination.

I also googled Aberchirder to see it's proximity to Rothes, LLandbryde and Bellie (where Joseph was living and working as a salmon fisher in 1851).  Roughly 23 to 26 miles away    Of course the mother of Joseph may have been working in Moray and returned to her home or went to a relative in Aberchirder to give birth.

Looby

[Annette7]

Agree with all you say - however, with my own Scottish research, there are a large number of my own ancestors baptisms missing that I was only able to correctly identify from marriage/death records.   It can be very hit/miss pre 1855 with Scottish parish records (either lucky or your not) and although Robert's birth should have been registered it's quite possible as apparently born away from family home his mother simply didn't register it, or if she died as result of childbirth someone else didn't register it.

Then again I can't find a death for an Ann Asher or Gillies between 1855-1858 either so one has to wonder if 'Ann' Asher was indeed her name and not something else.   Can imagine a birth entry getting overlooked but not a death.

Annette

[Forfarian]

Rothes to Aberchirder is 27 miles. Lhanbryde (not Llandbryde!) to Aberchirder is 29 miles. Bellie is a parish, and the biggest settlement here is Fochabers, from which it's 23 miles to Aberchirder. All of them a day's journey in the mid-19th century. From about 1850 or 1860 you could have gone most of the way by train, but it would have been a complicated journey with various changes of trains.

I couldn't find a death of a likely Ann Asher between 1855 and 1874 either.

I'm sure that the kirk session minutes are bound to shed some light on all this.

[loobylooayr]

Rothes to Aberchirder is 27 miles. Lhanbryde (not Llandbryde!) to Aberchirder is 29 miles.
 

Ooops apologises to all Lhanbryde folk. Like our ancestors before us I was making up my own spelling there of an unfamiliar place name. 

But seriously now, those places were a fair distance away for travel in those times. Although it has to said sometimes it amazes me how far some of my ancestors travelled between births of each yearly baby !

I do wonder if Ann Asher (if this was indeed Robert's mother's name) did die during Robert's first 19 or so years. She could have handed him over to his father's family to be raised especially after Joseph died. Oddly this is much like the situation I have with my own family tree - an illegitimate boy born circa 1855/56 and raised by his paternal grandparents using his father's surname and with another county as place of birth and for whom I can find no birth cert. His mother's name on his marriage and death cert is Smith  but a different forename on each. And it's just dawned on md .....his first name too is Joseph !!
But if Ann didn't die , she may have married and had no contact with her son. Sadly, to Robert she may have been dead.
As you say Forfarian, Kirk Session records may hold the answer.

Looby

[Benny Gillies]

To everyone out there taking an interest in this I thank you for your interest and dedication.
 I will need to print all this out and tabulate it down as my mind is awash with all the information you have gathered in such a short time. I am struggling to keep up with you so please excuse my lack of response. All very much appreciated.

[loobylooayr]

Hi Benny,
No need to apologise. Think we galloped away with your query. The mystery of the name changing James/John caught our imagination I think.
Take time to read it all through.
However I would suggest you find John Gillies on the 1901 Census and see where he was living at that time. It does seem very likely that for some reason which you may never get to the bottom of John became James by the time he married in 1907.

Good luck with your research ,

Looby

[eagle4]

Hi James. I am new to this and hope i do it right. My Grandfather Thomas Gillis was said to be born in Galashiels in 1871 to Thomas Gillis from Peebles Scotland whose wife was Margaret Stewart I have put a post on this site with all the info I have. I went to Peebleshire sources . Maybe you can look it up  .If not could you message me.
Regards
eagle4