Author Topic: Michael CROWLEY - immigrated from Ireland?  (Read 12316 times)

Offline sparrett

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Re: Michael CROWLEY - immigrated from Ireland?
« Reply #54 on: Sunday 09 August 15 09:21 BST (UK) »
Does anyone else think the word after the bracketed Jericho looks like an abbreviation of the word Guardian? It is underlined as if important.

Thus reading-
"John Heffernan (Jericho) Gudn.."

It seems odd that the document according to RayWitt's reading, states "consent of parents given"
If that were the case, then of course my attempt at reading the word as Guardian is incorrect. There would not be need for a guardian (would there ???)

However, I see no record for Augustus O'LOUGHLIN. Nora's father in Victoria.

I do not agree with you RayWitt on the  second witness signature. I do not see LOUGHLIN

I see the surname BRIEN.

Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline majm

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Re: Michael CROWLEY - immigrated from Ireland?
« Reply #55 on: Sunday 09 August 15 10:15 BST (UK) »
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=727767.0

I posted on the OPs Irish thread re Augustus O'Loughlin.

I agree with you Sue,  that there would be no need for a Guardian if the document reads "consent of parents given".   I am actually somewhat taken back that it reads 'parents' rather than one person's name, and their relationship to the bride.... To me,  'consent of parents given' is possibly (ummm.... likely) indicating that the bride's parents attended the wedding, so they had migrated too.   I am particularly surprised by the 'plural' .... the requirement for consent was and is for the person giving consent to be named, their relationship to be recorded....    I too have not found any record for Augustus (father of the bride) in Victoria.    The consent of persons entering a marriage contract and who have reached their majority of course is obvious because they sign.  The consent for persons who have not yet reached their majority is needed to validate that signature.  The consent can be written (in which case the clergy may note it as 'written consent of ......." or it can be verbal, during the ceremony itself. 

Yes, as to the second witness, I too see the surname as BRIEN.

I would anticipate there are other marriage registrations on that same double page document.  Perhaps the witness signature matches other signatures on that page.

Cheers,  JM

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Offline RayWitt

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Re: Michael CROWLEY - immigrated from Ireland?
« Reply #56 on: Sunday 09 August 15 14:00 BST (UK) »
The word after (Jericho) is Jordan.  I didn't think to look, but it is also written at the top of the page as to the district (printed "Marriages solemnized in the district of" and then handwritten in the same hand is "Jordan").
Their marriage is at the top of the registry page, and the one under theirs was not until the next month at Mansfield.  I don't know if it is purely coincidence or somewhat interesting that the groom of the following wedding was William Harris and he lists his parents as Stephen HARRIS and Helen HARKEN/HARKIN, although it states he (William) was born in England so perhaps a family connection is unlikely.

Someone PM'd me re:Augustus and suggested maybe his name was Augustine or Austin as Augustus didn't sound right for Ireland in the mid 1800's.  Regardless, it looks very much like Augustus to me on the marriage certificate - whether this is because he was not known by his real name or perhaps a misprint by the record keeper (the clergyman?).

Interesting you say about the consent, that perhaps they were present or perhaps they had written a letter to inform of their consent, but I'm 99% sure the word after the brackets is Jordan, not Guardn or a reference to him being Honora's guardian.  If Honora was a servant, as is listed on the certificate, wouldn't that indicate she was living away from home?  Or not necessarily?

I've attached the section at the bottom - next to the name of the person's residence - where the consent is written. I see "parents" but maybe there is no "S" at the end.
 

Offline sparrett

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Re: Michael CROWLEY - immigrated from Ireland?
« Reply #57 on: Monday 10 August 15 00:36 BST (UK) »
I agree with you, the word after Jericho is Jordan. So that is one matter clarified!


If Honora was a servant, as is listed on the certificate, wouldn't that indicate she was living away from home?  Or not necessarily?

I've attached the section at the bottom - next to the name of the person's residence - where the consent is written. I see "parents" but maybe there is no "S" at the end.
 

Whether or not she was living away from home has no bearing on her status as a minor and therefore requiring consent to be married.

Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline majm

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Re: Michael CROWLEY - immigrated from Ireland?
« Reply #58 on: Monday 10 August 15 00:49 BST (UK) »
Yes, you needed to be aged 21 years or more before you were legally able to give your own consent to enter into a marriage contract.  You did not need consent from BOTH parents.  You only needed consent from one of them, your father, and IF he was not available, that SHOULD be noted on the registration, and the next available person providing consent would likely be the bride's mother.   I have seen where an adult brother gave consent (although mother present, father deceased, adult male took legal precedent over adult female), and also in instances in the 1860s when NO parents were in the colony, where the clergyman recorded "by consent of friends"....

To me, the clergyman was of the view that the bride's parents had given him (the clergyman) consent to the marriage, ie they were present at least at an interview with him prior to his agreeing to conduct the marriage ceremony.    You need to remember that once civil registration commences, that the ceremony is in fact TWO ceremonies, running concurrently.   One is the civil process and one is the religious process.   The clergy were answerable to both Church law (of their respective denomination) and to civil statute law.   Statute Law penalty was likely to be two years in gaol for perjury.

Cheers,  JM 

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Offline majm

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Re: Michael CROWLEY - immigrated from Ireland?
« Reply #59 on: Monday 10 August 15 02:21 BST (UK) »
http://gazette.slv.vic.gov.au/images/1853/V/A/6.pdf 

I am not as familiar with Victoria's statute law re marriages as I am with NSW, but I am confident that the about link will take you to the first of the civil laws in respect of Victoria's BDM.   That law commences and takes effect from and after the thirty-first day of March, 1853.

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline RayWitt

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Re: Michael CROWLEY - immigrated from Ireland?
« Reply #60 on: Friday 13 November 15 22:52 GMT (UK) »
After a bit of a break from thinking about this family I've reread through the posts and come up with a theory.
Could Anne DRONEY - Norah's mother, have been first married to her father Augustine/Augustus O'LOUGHLIN, then Austin HARKIN (if Ausin is her half brother he is younger than Norah), then Michael MORONEY (they were married in 1863 and Anne was approx 46yrs old)?
I need to do some more digging.

Offline RayWitt

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Re: Michael CROWLEY - immigrated from Ireland?
« Reply #61 on: Monday 08 August 16 04:48 BST (UK) »
I just purchased Anne Moroney's death certificate as I was sure she was Hanora's mother.
I can't quite make out the names at the top of the children, but it does list Hanora, Austin and then 2 more sons who were deceased.
So is there no Augustine O'Loughlin? Is Augustine O'Loughlin, Austin Harkin?
Anyone want to have a go at decoding?
Born Clare Ireland, been in Australia 40 years, married Austin Harkin (former/farmer?) and Michael Moroney.

By _?_
_?_
Hanora
Austin
John (dec)
James (dec)

Informant was the son, Austin.

Offline shezzam

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Re: Michael CROWLEY - immigrated from Ireland?
« Reply #62 on: Friday 29 March 19 07:16 GMT (UK) »
Hi Ray,
Sorry I didn't see this in 2015, I could have advised Michael Crowley who came out on the Golconda, stayed in NSW and married in Wollongong. He died in 1915.
As for your certificate it reads Austin Harkin former husband.
Above the first two children's names was written "by former husband"
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Sherryl