Helen Milne born c mid 1850's Huntly - ? illegitimate

[meljade]

Hello,
I'm trying to track down a birth date/information regarding Helen Milne and who I believe to be her father William Milne.  The only information I have thus far comes from Helen's marriage certificate (when she married Bartlett Wilson in 1884) and the censuses.  Her parents are Jane Norrie and William Milne.  Jane Norrie a domestic servant and William Milne a clerk.  I have not been able to find a marriage between Jane and William.

Helen's age is not overly legible her the marriage certificate- I think it is 28 making her born approx 1856.  It also states that her father is William Milne, but that her mother is married to Alexander Bruce.  I have found Helen in the 1861 census listed Helen Milne (aged 8 making her birth approx 1853) living with her grandparents William and Helen Norrie (not her mother, stepfather or step siblings).  Helen becomes a domestic servant and is working at various houses in Banffshire and Kincardine in the 1881 and 1891 census.  Her birth place in the 1881 census is listed as Huntly.

Helen's mother Jane Norrie married Alexander Bruce in 1858 Huntly and went on to have 2 children that I'm aware of Alexander and Jean (born 1860 and 1865 respectively).

I have not been able to find any reference or information on William Milne or a birth date for Helen.
Is anyone able to help?  I don't live in Scotland so getting to local record offices is not an option.
Many thanks Mel

[GR2]

If she was born (as seems to be the case) before 1855, then her birth predates statutory registration. If there is no baptism recorded in the parish register, then the only way to proceed does involve being in Scotland. As she was illegitimate, the kirk session for the parish she was born in would probably have examined the matter. Their minutes may give some details of the parents. These minutes can be seen on computer in the National Records of Scotland in Edinburgh and certain other archives in Scotland.

If her marriage certificate gives an occupation for William Milne, it might be interesting to look (on FreeCEN) for potential William Milnes in the parish of birth in the 1851 census.

[meljade]

I have had a look at the 1851 census, there are a few William Milne's residing in Huntly.  The most interesting discovery is a William Milne living in George St with his wife Margaret and others.  William however is listed as a Weaver and was born c1790.  Helen's grandparents also lived in George St from 1851 to 1881.  Helen's mother is listed as living in George St with her husband Alexander and small children in 1861 (so she maybe only a few houses away when Helen was living with her Grandparents).  Helen's mother Jane Norrie was born in 1833 (so the age gap is quite a lot, if this William Milne is considered the father).  Just seems quite coincidental.

The other theory I have just thought of is that Helen's mother Jane is listed as living with other family at Broad St, Peterhead, Aberdeenshire in the 1851 census - she may have met William Milne whilst living in that parish instead of Huntly?? 

[Forfarian]

If she was illegitimate, there could be a record of the event in the minutes of the Kirk Session of the parish where she was born, or perhaps her mother's parish of residence. This could perhaps provide some more information about William Milne, which is such a common name that you cannot expect to find the right one without additional information.

The Kirk Session minutes are in the National Archives Records of Scotland in Edinburgh. They have been digitised but are not available online. You either have tyo go there in person, or to one of the local archives that have access to them (Glasgow, Aberdeen, others?), or get someone to do so on your behalf.

This is an example from my own tree which enabled me to pinpoint the correct father from several possible candidates: "New Monkland, 6th June 1831. Compeared RS from Airdrie confessing that she was with child in fornication and having been solemnly charged and interrogated she accused GW son of JW in Dalmacoulter as the person guilty with her and the father of her child. Being farther interrogated she stated that this child was begotten in the beginning of January last in Bridenhill Barn where she was then living. GW was ordered to be cited to next Meeting of Session to which RS was cited apud acta. [New Monkland Kirk Session Minutes, National Archives of Scotland CH2/685/3/45]"  (Full names in original replaced by initials)

[anne_p]

Jane Norrie and Alexander Bruce married in Huntly on 30 Dec 1858.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTNL-L8V
Births of their children:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY5F-N7F
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYB7-Y89

The marriage should state if Jane was married before.

1861: George St, Huntly
Alexander Bruce   27 Shoemake b Forgue
Jane Bruce   26 Wife B Leslie, Aberdeen
Alexander Bruce   5 Mo son B Huntly

Cannot locate family at 1871


Helen does not appear on any census returns with her mother and stepfather
However, at 1881  there is a grandchild living at the Bruce family home and it would seem that she is Helen's own child

Jane Hendry b 6 Oct 1874. Parents Robert Hendry and Helen MILNE
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY5F-LBF
   
1881: 34 George St, Huntly
Jane Bruce   45
Alexander Bruce   20
Jean Bruce   15
Jane Hendry   6 ****


EDIT:
Jane Norrie baptised Nov 1833 in Leslie, Aberdeenshire
Parents : William Norrie ans Helen Martin
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XBW7-M7W

HERE is Helen Milne living with her NORRIE grandparents:   
1861: George St, Huntly

William Norrie   50
Helen Norrie   48
Elspet Norrie   19
Elizabeth Norrie   14
William Norrie   12
Margaret Norrie   8
Ann Norrie   3
Andrew Norrie   70
Helen Milne   8 **** Grand Daughter b Huntley

[meljade]

I must admit that I have been focused on Helen Milne so much that I have not yet investigated how Jane Henry fit in with the family, so this is a revelation.  When Helen marries Bartlett Wilson in 1884 her marriage certificate states 'spinster'.  They wed at Tullos House, Parish of Nigg, County of Kincardine (where I believe Helen was a servant).

I think Helen is to be found at Glengarry, Parish of Marnoch, County of Banffshire in the 1871 census also as a servant??

I'm currently trying to track down Helen Wilson's death - I know she died between 1911 and 1931 (Bartlett's death certificate in 1931 states he is a widow)

[meljade]

I also forgot to say that on Jane Norrie's marriage certificate to Alexander Bruce it also states she is a spinster.

[meljade]

I have managed to find Helen Wilson's will on ScotlandsPeople - she died on the 10 July 1921, Aberdeen, husband Bartlet Wilson the beneficiary of her affects.  However I cannot find a matching statutory death record in the registers also on Scotlands People.  Am I missing something here?  Why wouldn't it be listed?

[andycand]

Hi

Have you had a look at the Helen Milne deaths? There is at least one in Aberdeenshire that is the right age.

Andy