Author Topic: Harris Family  (Read 2993 times)

Offline JoyceL

  • RootsChat Pioneer
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Harris Family
« on: Friday 14 August 15 22:34 BST (UK) »
I am trying to trace any details regarding Frederick Harris who was born in the Cape of Good Hope in 1797. He was brought to England by Lord Londesborough as his armourer. I am trying to find Frederick's parents and did Frederick have any siblings.

Joyce

Offline fastfusion

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,463
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Harris Family
« Reply #1 on: Friday 14 August 15 23:55 BST (UK) »
I would like to suggest that some parts of the Harris family may in fact been Mariners or of the Militia at this period. There are various churches in Cape Town in this period and some of the microform imagery appears on familysearch.org.   
use the following link > https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/South_Africa,_Cape_Province,_Western_Cape_Archive_Records_(FamilySearch_Historical_Records)

or
google "familysearch.org South Africa" to see what sort of records are available to start looking.......
you may have to go to a LDS centre and hire some of those microfilms.

If Frederick was christened in the Cape then the image on the microfilm should give the parentage, and subsequent reading of the films other sibs may appear........   I would also consider land documents and probates from the Cape........if there were in fact any for Fredericks parents....

It should be noted that in 1797 the British sent 9 warships to the Cape; and in 1795 there was  Battle of Muizenberg..........

Albert Denison Conyngham [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Londesborough] should appear somewhere on the censuses [1841 & 1851] up until 1860 when he died, and William no doubt should also appear.......     I am not certain of the coverage of York however so some kind soul may further that for you.....  If those census entries are found then your Harris chap may appear in the household or nearby......

Once you can establish Fredericks age then certificate references such as marriage and death may be also found....... but, since the name is somewhat of a popular one you may have to eliminate a few possibles.......

There is however, a certificate reference .....>

Deaths for March quarter of 1852   Harris,    Frederick Charles Henry    registered    York    [9d   28]

as Lord Londesborough lived around York  but I dont know how this is to be confirmed online without taking a risk and purchasing the said certificate.....   I suppose the next option is to find a grave marker or headstone that may give some clues......

Others may have some ideas here.....

Furthering that the said Frederick was born about 1797, it would be, if indeed the event happened,
about 1820 or so that he could have married and possibly bore off-spring......   I would be looking for records possibly on familysearch.org suggesting marriages or christenings at this period ....... or if a census is found say 1841 a few if any children may still be at home........
I am not certain if any 1831 censuses were done around York or if done even survive in any form... so trade directories may give some indicators as an armourer would not be all that popular in comparison to say farm labourers..... so maybe that could be an option to exploring where the chap lived....
Furthering this , I would not limit Fredericks chances to being in York, and consider that he could have lived as far away as Greenwich or in Kent as a whole  , because somewheres in my mind I recall a chatterer discussing their Harris genealogy in Kent......

I would also be looking for these folk on the National Archives website  and whether any estates pertaining to the Lord survive today whereas a historical trust collection may be available or similiarly an archivist.......   good luck with this




Offline John Fielden

  • RootsChat Pioneer
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Harris Family
« Reply #2 on: Monday 14 September 15 14:25 BST (UK) »
I can help you. I live a few hundred yards from Frederick Harris' grave. It is in the churchyard of a small hamlet called KIrkby Wharfe near Tadcaster. North Yorks. The tombstone also has the name of his daughter on it.

 Lord Londesborough was the lord of the manor (Grimston Park).

Best wishes

John

Offline LizzieL

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,898
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Harris Family
« Reply #3 on: Monday 14 September 15 15:32 BST (UK) »
Have you got the details of his marriages and children?
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott


Offline spendlove

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,264
  • I've not edited my PROFILE yet
    • View Profile
Re: Harris Family
« Reply #4 on: Monday 14 September 15 17:06 BST (UK) »
Hi,

According to Census Records (1851-1871) Frederick Harris was born abt 1805-1809 Cape of good hope and he is still alive in 1871 living in Kirkby Wharf.

1871 Census
Frederick Harris   66   Cape of Good Hope     Armourer
Ann Harris           54    Kirkby Wharf         
Lauretta Harris   16         "
William H Harris   13         "
Priscilla E Harris   11         "
Asenath A Harris     9         "

1841 Kirkby Wharf census shows
Ann Harris       25  of Independence means, born yorkshire
Frederick Harris  10months                                   "

Frederick Harris Snr is not at home.

Spendlove

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Spendlove, Strutt in London & Middlesex.

Offline LizzieL

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,898
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Harris Family
« Reply #5 on: Monday 14 September 15 17:16 BST (UK) »
FindMyPast has baptisms of quite a lot of children to Frederick and Ann starting with Frederick jnr in 1840 at Kirkby Wharfe. There is also earlier child (Mary Scott Harris) to Frederick and Mary in 1833. Frederick married Mary Scott in Pontefract in 1832 by licence. Mary Harris died in June 1833 and Mary Scott Harris age 4 month in Sept 1833. On M S Harris baptism. Frederick is described as under butlrer to Lord Howden. 1st Baron Howden had previously been governor of Cape of Good Hope. Armourer to Lord Londsborough came later.

I cannot find a marriage between Frederick and Ann, if after 1 jul 1837 it would give his father's name. Ann consistently gives her pob as Kirkby Wharfe, so I would expect marriage to be there, but I've been through all the Ann's marrying in KW in the expected time period and nothing.

Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline LizzieL

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,898
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Harris Family
« Reply #6 on: Monday 14 September 15 18:43 BST (UK) »

1841 Kirkby Wharf census shows
Ann Harris       25  of Independence means, born yorkshire
Frederick Harris  10months                                   "

Frederick Harris Snr is not at home.

Spendlove

Frederick snr is with Lord and Lady Howden and several other servants at St george hanover square, London.

Given the ages of Lord and Lady Howden, it must be the dowager Lady H (widow of 1st Baron Howden) and her son the 2nd Baron. Which fits with 1st baron dying in 1839
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline fastfusion

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,463
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Harris Family
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 15 September 15 01:24 BST (UK) »
some excellent replies there folks.

Offline llb1964

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 2
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Harris Family
« Reply #8 on: Friday 10 November 17 09:54 GMT (UK) »
Frederick Snr was my GGG Grandfather and I have only recently been involved in research as wasn't aware of our family tree until the death of my Uncle George a couple of months ago.
My question is if there is no marriage certificate found for Fred and Ann is it possible that they were not married at all?
Thanks