searching for JOYCE and BLACK surnames, County Down, C1800 - 1840

[familysleuth]

By a recent stroke of luck - an email to someone who has Joyce family but is currently searching for something else!-  I have found the marriage of my 2 x great grandparents. Andrew BLACK and Rachel JOYCE. This occurred on the 12 Dec 1840 in Moyallan ( par of Tullylish) (with) consent,  and their first son William was apparently born 21 Feb 1841 in Moyallan. Prior to this, I had only traced this couple from Mullahead, Brackagh, Armagh where their subsequent children George (born abt 1845), John, Elizabeth, Rachel, Thomas, Andrew and Henry were born.

Andrew Joyce was born about 1815 (according to his death reg) and Rachel born about 1821 but if this was 'with consent' then I may have to revise Rachel, or both Rachel and Andrew's possible birth years. I have read on another forum that the legal age was 12, but I expect permission was necessary for girls under the age of 16.

Does anyone have Joyce or Black family in Moyallan around 1800 - 1840's? of course, it is possible that they may have originally been born in Brackagh, Armagh, and been working there, but if they were young, the possibility is firmer that they lived with family.

Where might I find parish records for Moyallan? I have not found this marriage as an original or transcript online (ancestry, roots.ie etc as yet). although the records seem to exist (and my contact obtained them some years ago) I am unsure where to write for further information on extended family. Rachel identified herself as 'Church of Ireland' in the 1901 census, however I am aware that Moyallan had a strong Quaker population. cheers,
Louise

[aghadowey]

There were both Friends (Quakers) and Methodists in Moyallan but you really do need to find the source of that marriage record to be sure what you are looking for.
http://www.genuki.eu/DOW/Place1305.htm

[kingskerswell]

Hi,
   See http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/J/JiJu.htm
It might help.

Regards

[familysleuth]

Thanks to both who replied. I had a quick look at what is available at PRONI - its a bit daunting as I don't know what church - according to the genuk possibilities, only All Saints have records in the right time frame, but PRONI seem to have other parishes - however they re not identified really well from the online catelog. I will probably need some expert assistance, maybe a researcher (I am in Australia). cheers, and thanks

[KatC]

Seagoe may have been the church for Rachel as they were married there and had Wm baptized there.  The Seagoe records list Andrew Black of Knock  as marrying Andrew Joyce of Moyallon in one transcription.  It is Andrew Joyce and Rachel Black in another and confirmed as child William is a Joyce. .   

John Black married Elizabeth Joyce in 1803 (no location).  They had Margaret in 1805 and Rachel in 1819,Thomas 1823 in Ballydonaghy.  This is the only Rachel Black I am seeing.  There are a lot of Black deaths in Knock in the 1830's.  Would consent be necessary if John Black who died 1831 @48 was her father?

George and Ann are the only Joyce I am finding early in Knock, but usually no locations are listed.  It may be through them as perhaps a relative that Andrew met Rachel.   

A Moyallon Joyce family  had deaths of their children Rachel (age 14) and Richard there in 1813 per Seagoe records.  No parents were given.

[familysleuth]

That is brilliant, thank you! Please tell me where can I find these Seagoe Church records? I would love to have a copy of them!

I just thought of the Seagoe Cemetery, and found the burial of a Rachel Black in 1862, aged 53 years with a husband John Black (findagrave). It is possible that these could be Rachel's parents, although this Rachel would have been young to marry in 1826 which is the year I am considering for the birth of my Rachel.

A Rachel born in 1818 would not have needed consent to marry in 1840..... perhaps this is not her. considering the baptism date I was given for William, she would have been at least 7 months pregnant in December 1840..... or less if he was premature. This sounds more like a young woman than an older one, particularly combined with the 'consent'.

Thanks so much for your reply!