Any info on Edith Sitwell's butler, John Robins

[kizmiaz]

Hello

I am after any information about Edith Sitwells butler, John Robins and his wife Susan. John was the butler at Renishaw Hall, and apparently was a cantankerous ex-soldier, according to sources in biographies of Edith Sitwell.

If he is the same John Frederick Robins who died in Sheffied in 1977 he may well be my paternal great grand uncle, born in Hailsham, Sussex in 1887.

If anyone has any info about his time at Renishaw Hall, or any more info about his life before or after, I would be most fascinated to read it

Many thanks

Glen

[lizdb]

What date are the biographies, and do they give any indication of what sort of age he was then? Old and cantakerous  or young and cantankerous?

[lizdb]

I wonder if she made any provision for him in her Will?

Probate index entry
Dame Edith Louisa Sitwell of Bryher House 20 Keats Grove Hampstead died 9 Nov 1964 at St Thomas Hospital Probate to Philip Beaumont Frere Solicitor and Francis Trajen Sacheverall Sitwell Public Relations Officer
Effects £28836

[kizmiaz]

Hi lizdb

The quotes about John come from a Google Books search for "Edith Sitwell" "John Robins" and appear in a 2011 book entitled Edith Sitwell: Avant garde poet, English genius by Richard Greene.

The first quote I can see is

"In any event, the peace of the summer of 1928 was broken only when the two-year-old daughter of Osbert's servant John Robins pointed her finger at Lady Ida and told her to 'Bugger off.'" - Nice! Middle aged and cantankerous, possibly, if his daughters language is a guide.

The second quote -
"At Renishaw, Edith generally had the company of Osbert, his secretary Lorna Andrade, the cantankerous butler John Robins, and his wife Susan, and whichever servants John Robins had not driven away. In August 1940, David Horner joined the RAF... " so that falls into the 'old and cantankerous' category.

I have emailed the Sitwell Society for any more info, so I am on tenterhooks to see if the facts match

Many thanks

Glen

[lizdb]

So, he had a 2 yr old daughter in 1928
So she was born 1925 or 1926 (depending on if she had had her birthday that year)

There are quite a few female Robins born in that range, but not so many that it shouldnt be possible to work through and look for marriages for the parents of each, until hopefully you find one with parents John amd Susan!

[chempat]

He was Osbert's former batman:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fzp/

from the Yeomanry or Grenadier Guards?

[kizmiaz]

So, he had a 2 yr old daughter in 1928
So she was born 1925 or 1926 (depending on if she had had her birthday that year)

There are quite a few female Robins born in that range, but not so many that it shouldnt be possible to work through and look for marriages for the parents of each, until hopefully you find one with parents John amd Susan!

Hi Lizdb

After a quick look at the family of this John Robins he would appear to have married Susan Hamblin in 1924 in Frome, Somerset, and the potty-mouth daughter would therefore be Elizabeth Annie Pamela Robins, born in Chesterfield in 1926.

I may have to order the marriage certificate to establish whether this is the right John Robins. If he married Susan in Somerset, then all the other facts would be confirmation that I have a cantankerous ancestor (among many!).

Glen

[Snapdecision]

Hi,

John Frederick Robins was my grandfather and the potty mouthed 2 year old was my mother Elizabeth (Betty) who died last year aged 88.

He told me that he earned money as a child operating the pump for the Hailsham fire engine, later he worked in a rope factory and I think that in one of Sir Osbert's autobiographies there is reference to selling fish. He had wanted to be a jockey, but grew too tall, so enlisted in the cavalry instead and I believe he served with his regiment in Ireland in the 1900s.

JFR was indeed Sir Osbert's army servant and at some point prior to WW1, I think he must have become an army reservist as he also travelled as servant to Osbert's father Sir George Sitwell to the family's other residence in Italy.

He was mobilised with the 11th Hussars in 1914 and was taken prisoner early in the war. He spent the rest of the war in a prisoner of war camp and apparently was put to work in a Black Forest saw mill.

After the war, he resumed service with the Sitwells and remained with them mainly at Renishaw until his wife died in 1952.

Many famous figures from the arts and public life were guests at Renishaw between the wars and my mother, being a child at the time saw nothing remarkable in this. So she mixed with all manner of clever, creative and interesting people and only came to realise that this was not the norm for working class children when it stopped.


As a small boy, I was totally in awe of Dame Edith. If you google her image you may understand why. However, she kept in touch with my grandfather and my mother by letter and telegram until shortly before her death long after they left Renishaw. JFR appeared in Dame Edith's "this is your life" in the early 1960s.

Hope you find this of interest.

If you have any info about JFR's many siblings or wider family, I would be very interested.


Chris

[kizmiaz]

Hi Chris,

To say I am interested would be a massive understatement! 

Firstly, my sincere condolences for the loss of your mother. Secondly, welcome to Rootschat.

My great-grandfather was William Henry Robins, born in 1895, and was the son of Samuel William Robins and Louisa Duly. There seem to have been 11 children starting with Alice in 1885 through to Annie in 1906, of whom I have info on all but 2 of them. I have found no information on brother James Richard Robins after WW1 when he was reported as Awol. Let me know what info you need.

My father says that his grandfather William was cantankerous, but I do remind him that he only knew him after a long life, and knew nothing of why he may not have had the rosiest demeanour.

Many, many thanks

Glen