question about witnesses

[Tom Huygens]

Hi everybody,

what are the rules exactly for witnesses to a marriage? Or are there none?

I have one weird thing in a marriage in a rather complicated family, who moved all over the place from Scotland through Ireland and Lancashire to end up in London. I have located at least 6 or 7 siblings, only two of them (!) have a birth register. I based the relations between them on - among other hints - the witnesses to their marriages and the names of their children and grandchildren.

There is one person who appears at least twice as a witness to a marriage of her siblings: once in 1809, once in 1818. I am sure it is the same girl, her signature is almost exactly the same on both documents.
When I look at the other children, there is a gap around 1800 (there is one born in 1797, and the next in 1804). It is possible that she was born around that date.

This would mean, though, that she was only 9 years old at the time of the 1809 marriage of her sister. Before dismissing that: she signed as a third witness. The marriage certificate is also signed by both her parents (= also parents of the bride), her signature is a bit on the side.
The signature on the other marriage, at age 18, is clearly done with a steadier hand. There she signed with her brother-in-law, the groom of the 1809 marriage.

Is it possible that she would have "signed" the marriage certificate together with her parents just because they wanted to amuse a young girl? It is also the first marriage in the family, it's the eldest sister who gets married. She must have been very proud, since her mother couldn't write and signed with an X. Hers is right next to that. Dad could write though, and they (dad and both daughters) have the same capital "G".
Or is that something which would be absolutely impossible, making the marriage invalid etc?



Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this!
Tom

[clairec666]

According to this very useful site http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/marriages.htm there is no minimum age.

Today the limit appears to be 16 in Scotland and 18 in the rest of the UK.

So I guess a 9 year old could have been a witness...

[stanmapstone]

The relevant Acts say that all Marriages had to be solemnized in the Presence of two or more credible Witnesses, without defining what a 'credible' witness was. It was up to who ever was officiating to decide whether they were credible or not. As long as the young person understood what they were witnessing, and could reach the register. In practice, probably about 11-12 was the youngest likely to have been asked. The advice to the clergy was these should, whenever practible be the relatives or friends of the parties, who would be able to testify afterwards to the identity of the persons from personal knowledge or recollection.
"Children should not be allowed to act as witnesses, but while the law permits girls of twelve years of age to contract matrimony, a clergyman would not consider it right to object to young persons as witnesses"
"The Marriage Law of England", James T. Hammick, published 1873.

Stan

[stanmapstone]

Today the limit appears to be 16 in Scotland and 18 in the rest of the UK.

From "Guide Book For Clergy" General Register Office, July 2011.
Witnesses
Two or more witnesses must be present at the marriage. There is no restriction on the number of witnesses  nor is there an age limit but they must be able to understand what is taking place and testify if necessary as to what they have seen and heard.

Stan

[Tom Huygens]

Thanks everyone!

So, it is possible that she witnessed her sister's wedding, especially since both her parents witnessed as well. It seems to have had no influence on the validity of the marriage.

Great!