Author Topic: Confusing case of two John hodgsons (I'm stumped)  (Read 3634 times)

Offline Emma Hughes

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Confusing case of two John hodgsons (I'm stumped)
« on: Friday 28 August 15 10:37 BST (UK) »
This is the most confusing problem I have ever come across, if anyone has any ideas I'd be very grateful.

I have been researching my ggd grandfather John Hodgson b. 1870. He was born in Westmorland along with many others of the same name, On his marriage certificate it states that his father was also called John Hodgson and he was a blacksmith.

With this information I soon found the household census records of John Hodgson b. 1838(ish) married to Mary with a son called John. He was the blacksmith in Hutton roof, Westmorland and he was born in Kirkby Lonsdale.

I then set about finding census records for his entire life and planned to find his parents in this manner.

1891. John Hodgson - blacksmith in Hutton roof. B. Kirkby Lonsdale. Wife Mary, kids including John Hodgson born 1838

1881. John Hodgson - blacksmith in Hutton roof. B. Kirkby Lonsdale. Wife Mary, kids including John Hodgson born 1838

1871. John Hodgson - agricultural labourer!? In lupton. B. Kirkby Lonsdale. Wife Mary and the same kids with the same dates of birth as in the later census

1861. Can't find joy. Hodgson the blacksmith or blacksmith apprentice. Found 2 farm labourers, could be either but I imagined he must have to have been an apprentice or son of a blacksmith

THIS IS WHERE IT GETS CONFUSING

Option 1
1851- John Hodgson - son of blacksmith aged 12 in Lupton. B Kirkby Lonsdale

Option 2
1851- John Hodgson - apprentice blacksmith aged 14 in Lupton. B Holme (very near Kirkby Lonsdale

Both of these two options are on the same census record from the same house. The head of the family was George Hodgson the blacksmith who has a son aged 12 called John and an apprentice aged 14. I can find a previous census from 1841 with George as the blacksmith and his young son John.

I'm stumped, any ideas?
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Offline clearly

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Re: Confusing case of two John hodgsons (I'm stumped)
« Reply #1 on: Friday 28 August 15 12:07 BST (UK) »
Option 1 would seem to be the right one as it ties in with a birth in 1838.

It may be that the forge could not sustain two families during the agricultural depression so young John may have had to take work where he could find it. However, Hutton Roof is right on the border with Lancashire and not that far from Yorkshire, so it may be worthwhile looking in these counties.
Forster Cul, Harrison Cul, Wood Cul Yks, Castley Cul & Wes, Lorimer Cul and Perth,Innis Cul, Casson, Cul, Johnston,Cul & Nfk, Carruthers Cul, Ewart Cul, Jardine Cul & Dmf, Story Cul, ONeill Cul & NI, Davis Cul & Ldn,

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Offline rosie17

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Re: Confusing case of two John hodgsons (I'm stumped)
« Reply #2 on: Friday 28 August 15 12:14 BST (UK) »
How do you know this is the right family as there is another John Hodgson born same year  same place with a wife Elizabeth
1881  1891 census Hutton Roof John Hodgson b 1838 Kirby occupation blacksmith
Who did the son John b 1870 Marry ?

Offline Emma Hughes

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Re: Confusing case of two John hodgsons (I'm stumped)
« Reply #3 on: Friday 28 August 15 14:39 BST (UK) »
That is a good idea about checking the records of Yorkshire and Lancashire for blacksmiths called John Hodgson

Apart from the birth place of the son (rather than the blacksmith) being the same as the later records I have I'm starting to think it's more likely he was the apprentice. The son would have had to do an apprenticeship as a blacksmith I would have thought, unless it took place between the census years.

I would have expected to find 2 John hodgsons of the same age working as blacksmiths in 1861 and 1871

The younger John went on the marry Elizabeth Sewart. I'm waiting for their marriage certificate. He worked as the blacksmith in Hutton roof while George was the blacksmith in Kirkby Lonsdale
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Offline johndwadsworth

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Re: Confusing case of two John hodgsons (I'm stumped)
« Reply #4 on: Friday 28 August 15 17:25 BST (UK) »
The Father of the John who married Elizabeth Sewart was called George.

Hodgsons
1841 John b 1838 father George b1811 /-5 at Smithy, Kirkby Lonsdale.
1851 John b 1839 father George b 1806 at Stocks, Kendal.
1861 George b 1806 at Lupton Smythey. John not identifiable.
1871 John b 1839 with wife Elizabeth and family at Lupton Smithy.

Other years as previously posted except wife is always Elizabeth.

Offline Emma Hughes

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Re: Confusing case of two John hodgsons (I'm stumped)
« Reply #5 on: Friday 28 August 15 21:12 BST (UK) »
Thanks John, that's what I thought. I'm confused because there was another John Hodgson in the smithy at Kirkby Lonsdale with George. This boy was the blacksmith apprentice. After this census I can only find one blacksmith called John Hodgson and that was the son, the one who married Elizabeth. And he appears to be an agricultural labourer before becoming the blacksmith in Lupton.

I can't find the apprentice or the son working as a blacksmith in Westmorland, Lancashire or Yorkshire in 1861 and 1871. Maybe the apprentice died, maybe he never completed the apprenticeship. And John Hodgson the son must have completed an apprenticeship between the census times. Im waiting for the certificate  :-X
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Kingwell/Dymond-Devon

Offline Emma Hughes

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Re: Confusing case of two John hodgsons (I'm stumped)
« Reply #6 on: Friday 04 September 15 19:35 BST (UK) »
Good news! Certificate has arrived. It was John Hodgson the son of George. The apprentice with the same name, profession and age was a stunning coincidence
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Offline sue miller

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Re: Confusing case of two John hodgsons (I'm stumped)
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 31 March 16 19:06 BST (UK) »
This is the most confusing problem I have ever come across, if anyone has any ideas I'd be very grateful.

I have been researching my ggd grandfather John Hodgson b. 1870. He was born in Westmorland along with many others of the same name, On his marriage certificate it states that his father was also called John Hodgson and he was a blacksmith.

With this information I soon found the household census records of John Hodgson b. 1838(ish) married to Mary with a son called John. He was the blacksmith in Hutton roof, Westmorland and he was born in Kirkby Lonsdale.

I then set about finding census records for his entire life and planned to find his parents in this manner.

1891. John Hodgson - blacksmith in Hutton roof. B. Kirkby Lonsdale. Wife Mary, kids including John Hodgson born 1838

1881. John Hodgson - blacksmith in Hutton roof. B. Kirkby Lonsdale. Wife Mary, kids including John Hodgson born 1838

1871. John Hodgson - agricultural labourer!? In lupton. B. Kirkby Lonsdale. Wife Mary and the same kids with the same dates of birth as in the later census

1861. Can't find joy. Hodgson the blacksmith or blacksmith apprentice. Found 2 farm labourers, could be either but I imagined he must have to have been an apprentice or son of a blacksmith

THIS IS WHERE IT GETS CONFUSING

Option 1
1851- John Hodgson - son of blacksmith aged 12 in Lupton. B Kirkby Lonsdale

Option 2
1851- John Hodgson - apprentice blacksmith aged 14 in Lupton. B Holme (very near Kirkby Lonsdale

Both of these two options are on the same census record from the same house. The head of the family was George Hodgson the blacksmith who has a son aged 12 called John and an apprentice aged 14. I can find a previous census from 1841 with George as the blacksmith and his young son John.

I'm stumped, any ideas?
Hi my great great grandad was one of the John Hodgsons you are talking about,  He is the John Hodgson who was married to Elizabeth living at Lea Bank Hutton Roof on the 1891 census with John listed as blacksmith as is his son George on the same census.  John by then being 54 years old and George 18.  my great grandfather was George's brother Edward Hodgson  aged 23 on that same census,  they had other brothers and sisters ....Sarah, John, Alice, William and James,    I have been trying to find when my great grandad Edward died it seems to be around 1900,  he was married to Frances Stewardson in 1897 the same year my grandad John James Hodgson was born and his sister Elizabeth Jane Hodgson was born in 1899,  But as his wife remarried a John Henry Fraser in Lancaster in 1903,  I presume he had died,  does anyone have any information?

Offline Emma Hughes

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Re: Confusing case of two John hodgsons (I'm stumped)
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 31 March 16 21:57 BST (UK) »
I'm thrilled to read your reply but I have to go and get a pen and paper to work out the John Hodgson connection...
Bowering-Lympsham
Shewring/Hale-Corston
Lewis-Stanton Upon Arrow
Adams-Abergavenny
Brookman-Bristol
Hughes-Gwnnws
Bonnor-Gwnnws
Millward-Pen Tyrch
Roberts-Llancynfelyn
Morgan-Llantrisant
Hodgson-Westmorland
Thomas-Pontypridd
Kingwell/Dymond-Devon