Author Topic: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk  (Read 2817 times)

Offline Gilby

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Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
« on: Saturday 29 August 15 10:26 BST (UK) »
I am looking for Windy Hill, specifically Windy Hill Graveyard, which I believe to be somewhere near Mallusk.  Has anyone ever heard of it?

The reason I ask is I’m looking into the Thoburn family who lived around Craigarogan/Mallusk.  There is a book called “The Ancestry of the Irish-American Thoburns” which has genealogies mostly put together from two bibles and the Carnmoney church records.

This is the bit I’m interested in:

Joseph Thoburn, (26 Feb 1719 – 19 Nov 1792) m. Eleanor Barron (1735 – 13 Aug 1811):
- John [hypothetical apparently, so I’ll leave him out]
- Mary, b. 5 Feb 1751
- David, (10 Jul 1757 – 3 May 1802/3) m. Janet Barron in Aug 1783.
.                      1. Jane (1797 - 1872).  She erected a monument in Windy Hill cemetery.
                       2. John (1799? - 1845?)
                       3. David (1800 - Aug 1862).  (Windy Hill cemetery and Family Bible.)
- Joseph (24 Jan 1759 – ?) m. Janet Bigger.
- William (1765 – 27 Jan 1819) m. Agnes Russell on 11 May 1788.


I’m trying to get to the bottom of the Thoburn-Barron connections.

The will calendar has a David Thoburn of Craigarogan who died on the 23rd October 1862.  He leaves everything to his sister Jane, and after she dies to their nephews and nieces.  The will calendar also records that Jane died in 1872, and according to GRONI she was 75, so born about 1797.

This all fits with the above, apart from the fact the Thoburn book has David’s death as August 1862, not October.  I'd like to be able to assume they just got the date a bit wrong, but there was in fact a David Thoburn who did die in August 1862:

Belfast Newsletter, 16th August 1862
Thoburn - August 15, at 23, High Street, Holywood, Mr. David Thoburn, formerly of Belfast, aged 59 years.  His remains will be removed from his late residence, for interment in Mallusk Burying-ground, on to-morrow (Sunday), at one o'clock, passing over the Queen's Bridge about half-past two.  Friends will please accept this intimation.

I’m wondering if the Thoburn book has got the two David Thoburns mixed up.  Judging by the comments in the genealogy above I ought to try and find the monument erected by Jane Thoburn in “Windy Hill cemetery” hence this post.

~ MFG

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Offline gaffy

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Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 29 August 15 11:48 BST (UK) »
The Placenamesni.org website identifies a Windy Hill in the townland of Craigarogan in the civil parish of Templepatrick, which is right on the money for a "Mallusk" reference.
 
Griffith's Valuation shows an "Old Grave Yard" in Craigarogan, here is an OSI map of the location:

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,726800,884053,9,7

- if this link doesn't work, search for Craigarogan here: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch

On a modern map and on google streetview / satellite, I can see nothing, just a few houses. By my reckoning, the "Old Grave Yard" should lie just north of the Roughfort Road at its junction with the Millbank Road travelling NNW.

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Offline Gilby

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Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 29 August 15 14:34 BST (UK) »
Ooh, interesting.  I’d seen that old graveyard marked on maps, but thought it had probably ceased to exist.

Joe Graham mentions it in his (slightly partisan?) blog:

http://outandabout.rushlightmagazine.com/roughtfort.html

Apparently all destroyed?

If Jane Thoburn erected a monument there in the c1860s, and it was still there in the early-mid 1900s when the Thoburn book was put together, you’d think there was a chance it might still be there?  As you say though, if anything survives it looks like it’s probably in someone’s garden now.

I wonder why it wasn’t called the Roughfort graveyard though.  And where is Windy Hill itself?  I suppose it could be the hill which peaks close to the cross roads between the Lylehill Road and the Old Coach Road?

Offline Gilby

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Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 29 August 15 20:46 BST (UK) »
Thought I’d check the graveyard inscriptions for other Windy Hill references...

From Ballynure Old Graveyard:
Fulton Erected by John & James Fulton to the memory of their beloved father John Fulton of Windyhill who died 24 Mar 1849 aged 79 years. Also their mother Rebecca Fulton who departed this life 21 Nov 1868 aged 89 years. Also the above-named James Fulton who died 20 Oct 1890 aged 78 years. In loving memory of my dear wife Mary A. Fulton who died 26 Jan 1955. Also her dear husband John Fulton who died 21 Sep 1957.

I have a couple of BMD notices which indicate there were Fultons living in Kilgreel and Roughfort.

And I know for sure there was Kelso’s living in Roughfort.  Just went through my photos of graves in Mallusk and found this one:

Here lieth the body of Andrew Kelso of Windyhill who departed thislife the 1 january 179(8?) age (8?)4 years.  Also Arabella Kelso his wife who departed this life January 20th 1800 aged 7(5?) years.  Here lieth the body of their son Joseph Kelso of Cow len-y (?) ... who departed this life the 1(?th) of Dec 1799 aged (33?) years.  Also here lieth the body of ??s??n? Kelso wife of Joseph Kelso of C/Gow?on-ward who died ... (buried) 27 years.


Offline gaffy

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Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 30 August 15 04:18 BST (UK) »
From the Belfast Newsletter of 1861:

Land For Sale...

A farm of land, situate in the townland of Craigarogan, parish of Templepatrick, adjoining the village of Roughfort, six and a-half miles from Belfast, known by the name of Windy Hill, containing 54 acres...   


Offline Gilby

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Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 30 August 15 09:42 BST (UK) »
Ah, thanks.  I looked that up on the valuation books - that corresponds to #41.  Shown as William Fulton's, then William Tate's, then in 1865 Robert Q/Dueery(?).

Looking at the map I'm not sure I'd say it strictly speaking adjoined Roughfort, although it does now with the relatively recent developments at the crossroads.  On streetview you can see that the farm does sit on a hill - so that answers that question (where is Windy Hill).

I was just doing some more searching and came across the planning website with information on a Local Landscape Policy Area in Roughfort:

Locally significant building and its surroundings – New house on Millbank Road East, with the site of an old church in the side garden, and significant trees along the boundary.

It doesn't sound like there's much of it left, and there's no mention of any headstones.  You can see the spot they're referring to on streetview - too shady to make much out.  Hmm.

Offline gaffy

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Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 30 August 15 10:38 BST (UK) »
If I'm interpreting things correctly, if you approach the Roughfort Road/Millbank Road junction from the Millbank Road (ie. travelling south-ish), the first house you encounter after farmland, on the left/west side of the road is a relatively new bungalow, which can be ignored. 

Then two even newer houses, each with something of a side garden and "significant" trees between them, the first an unusual design (only three windows at front, two ground floor windows and one first floor bulls-eye/oculus), then the next house is a fairly standard modern house with 9 windows to front.

I'm assuming the graves must have been in the vicinity of the "significant" trees between these two houses, I can see a separate gate into the garden of the house with 9 windows to front which is odd, that may be an old lane / right of way.     

Either way, these houses are relatively recent and I can't see any headstones from the google streetview perspective.


Offline Gilby

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Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 30 August 15 16:39 BST (UK) »
Agreed.  The significant trees with the gate is the shaded area I was referring to.  My hope (and I accept I'm likely to be disappointed) is that if any headstones survive they are somewhere near the corner of the garden under the trees.

Maybe someone who knows will post.  If not I'll have to go for a nosy some day.    :-\

Offline allister1964

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Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 14 September 17 22:05 BST (UK) »
I  have  an  interest  in  the  Thoburn  family  of  Carnmoney/Mallusk,  as  Janet  Girvan  (born abt 1665, who was likely  to  be  a sister  or  cousin  of  my  direct  ancestor),  was  married  to  a  Samuel  Thoburn. Janet  and  Samuel  were  recorded  in  the  Carnmoney  Presbyterian  Session  Book  in  either  December  1702  or  1703,  as  'living  apart',  though  after  some  persuasion  by  the  Elders,  they  agreed  to  live  together.   I  have  photocopies  of  the  original  document  regarding  some  members  of  the  Thoburn  family, which  was  compiled  by  William  Fee  McKinney (held  by  the  Public  Records  Office  in  Belfast).  The  earliest record  relates  to  a  Joseph  Thoburn  (1690-1758)  who  was  married  to  Agnes  Russell  (1688-1766). Joseph  and  Agnes  had  a son,  John  (1724-1806)  who  married  Margaret  Robinson  (born 1719) in 1746.

I  was  hoping  to  make  a  link  between  Samuel  Thoburn  and  his  wife  Janet  Girvan,  with,  Joseph  Thoburn  (1690-1758).  Maybe  you  can  shed  some  light  on  this  for  me? 

Just  one  interesting  point  -  I  had  a  Y-Chromosome  37  Marker  DNA  test  in  early  2014, and
found  one  of  my  closest  matches  in  the  'FamilytreeDNA'  website  was  a  gentleman  named,  Hugh  Hilliar  Eaglesham.  As  my  test  was  concerned  with  the  direct  male  line  of  descent  (ie:  passed  from  father  to  son  over  many  generations),  this  meant  that  when  my  ancestor   adopted  the  surname  Girvan,  his  brother  adopted  the  surname  Eaglesham.  Anyway,  I searched online, and found  Hugh  H  Eaglesham's genealogical  background,  and  his  family  originate  from  about  5  miles  north  of  the  town  of  Girvan  in  Ayrshire,  Scotland.

Finally,  I  can  recall  the  Canadian  snooker  player,  Cliff  Thorburn  being  interviewed  by  the  BBC  around  1984,  and  he  mentioned  that  he  had  visited  Girvan  in  Ayrshire,  as  his  ancestors  had  lived  there.  I  hope  this  is  of  some  interest  to  you.

Best  Wishes,  Allister  Girvin.