Author Topic: Smith and McGuire Families  (Read 4196 times)

Offline Revolution

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
    • View Profile
Smith and McGuire Families
« on: Sunday 30 August 15 12:51 BST (UK) »
Philip Smith was born about 1838 in Westmeath, Ireland. We have no town or parish names to help narrow the search. He emigrated to Australia around 1860 and I have his marriage, family and death info from there. Id like to start exploring his roots in Ireland.

His wife Catherine McGuire was also born in Westmeath but they did not marry until Australia. She travelled to Australia by herself landing in November 1862 and marrying in January 1863. Her parents were Thomas McGuire and Julia Doyle.

He was the son of Patrick Smith and Madge Black. Madge was also known as Marcella Black. On Philips death certificate Patrick Smith was said to be a farmer.

We think that at least two sons from the same family emigrated to Australia. The other son was James Smith who was born about 1834. In 1858 James married Eliza Mahon in Tongleman County, Westmeath, Ireland. We think thier first son was born in Australia in 1860. Eliza was born about 1838. She died in 1871 in Australia. Her parents were listed as Patrick Mahon and Marcella Blake. Its difficult to say if someone confused the names of her parents with her husbands or if those were her parents names.

The Smiths were Catholics.

Any suggestions on how to start narrowing down the records to a smaller area?
McGaveston - Dublin-Ireland, France, New Zealand
White - Shalden, Alton, Chawton-Hampshire
O'Donnell - New Zealand, Co Down-Northern Ireland, USA
Franklin/Fraenkel - New Zealand, Prussia
Day - Echuca, Tongala, London, Fairford-Gloucestershire
Clark/McGraw - New Zealand, Ireland, England
McMahon -Ipswich-QLD, Kiladysart-Co Clare
Smith - Ipswich, Pine Mountain, Redbank-QLD, Co Westmeath, Co Cavan-Ireland
McGuire - Redbank - QLD, Co Westmeath-Ireland
Culhane - Queensland, Ardlaghan - Co Limerick

Offline myluck!

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,768
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Smith and McGuire Families
« Reply #1 on: Monday 31 August 15 08:31 BST (UK) »
Without proof with a common combination of names it can be difficult to confirm
however these two families look promising and worth considering

Link to Parish registers for Clonmellon

Thomas McGUIRE m Judy DOYLE
May 30 1828 in Clonmellon, Co. Meath/Westmeath (This parish straddles the county boundary)

They had at least five children baptised in the parish under various spelling of MAGUIRE, McGUIRE, etc.
Jan 05 1829 Mary
Feb 04 1831 John
Apr 21 1832 Bridget
Apr 04 1835 Catherine
Mar 23 1840 Judith

In the same parish:
Patrick SMITH m Margaret BLACK
Nov 23 1826

They had at least five children baptised in the same parish under various spelling SMYTH, SMITH, etc.

Nov 06 1827 Thomas
Jan 19 1830 William
Aug 09 1834 Philip
May 22 1832 James
Sep 06 1836 Mary
Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder

Offline Revolution

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
    • View Profile
Re: Smith and McGuire Families
« Reply #2 on: Monday 31 August 15 08:46 BST (UK) »
Thank you Myluck!

Also thank you to Maggsie who sent some info via a personal message!

With the link to the registers - will that allow me to explore further back if the family stayed in the same area?
McGaveston - Dublin-Ireland, France, New Zealand
White - Shalden, Alton, Chawton-Hampshire
O'Donnell - New Zealand, Co Down-Northern Ireland, USA
Franklin/Fraenkel - New Zealand, Prussia
Day - Echuca, Tongala, London, Fairford-Gloucestershire
Clark/McGraw - New Zealand, Ireland, England
McMahon -Ipswich-QLD, Kiladysart-Co Clare
Smith - Ipswich, Pine Mountain, Redbank-QLD, Co Westmeath, Co Cavan-Ireland
McGuire - Redbank - QLD, Co Westmeath-Ireland
Culhane - Queensland, Ardlaghan - Co Limerick

Offline myluck!

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,768
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Smith and McGuire Families
« Reply #3 on: Monday 31 August 15 14:13 BST (UK) »
Yes but it is a slog! Handwriting is tiring to read and unfortunately few marriage records named parents.

I used another paid site to search and checked the originals on the free site
Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder


Offline Revolution

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
    • View Profile
Re: Smith and McGuire Families
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 04 April 20 01:51 BST (UK) »
Its been a long time since I looked at this family but a cousin of mine of going to Ireland and hoping to visit where our ancestors lived.

Ive been looking into Patrick Smiths birth and death to see if we can trace any families that might still live there. Based on Irish naming traditions and location I think Patricks parents are Thomas Smith and Catherine Smith who married 20 Aug 1793 • Clonmellon, Westmeath, Ireland. Their children were

Patrick b1794
Philip
Bridget
James
Owen

Patricks wife Margaret Black was older than him by 7 years but the only record I can find for his wife Margaret Black is a baptism in 1787 making her 39 when she married which is very very late making her last born child being born when she was 49.

For completeness there are the other records so I thought I would get some fresh eyes to make sure I havent overlooked something..


Patrick Smith
Birth Date
    1799
Baptism Date
 9 Apr 1799
Baptism Place
Clonmellon, Meath and Westmeath, Ireland
Parish Variants
Killalon, Killan, Killon
Diocese
  Meath
Father
 Jams Smith
Mother
 Cath Bardy


Name:    Patrick Smith
Baptism Age:    0
Event Type:    Baptism
Birth Date:    1795
Baptism Date:    10 Feb 1795
Baptism Place:    Castlepollard, Westmeath, Ireland
Parish Variants:    Lickblea, Lickblea and Wheran, Rathgarraf, Wheran
Diocese:    Meath
Father:    Philip Smith
Mother:    Mary Brady


First name(s)   Pat
Last name   Smith
Birth year   -
Baptism year   1794
Baptism date   27 Oct 1794
Parish   Clonmellon
Alternative parish names   Killalon, Killan, Killon
Diocese   Meath
County   Meath, Westmeath
Country   Ireland
Father's first name(s)   Thos
Father's last name   Smith
Mother's first name(s)   Cath
Mother's last name   Smith
Repository   
National Library of Ireland

First name(s)   Patt
Last name   Smith
Birth year   -
Baptism year   1789
Baptism date   20 May 1789
Parish   Clonmellon
Alternative parish names   Killalon, Killan, Killon
Diocese   Meath
County   Meath, Westmeath
Country   Ireland
Father's first name(s)   Patt
Father's last name   Smith
Mother's first name(s)   Peggy
Mother's last name   Handa

First name(s)   Patt
Last name   Smith
Birth year   -
Baptism year   1789
Baptism date   24 Nov 1789
Parish   Clonmellon
Alternative parish names   Killalon, Killan, Killon
Diocese   Meath
County   Meath, Westmeath
Country   Ireland
Father's first name(s)   Jas
Father's last name   Smith
Mother's first name(s)   Rose
Mother's last name   Maffett
Repository   
National Library of Ireland

First name(s)   Pat
Last name   Smith
Birth year   -
Baptism year   1799
Baptism date   06 Nov 1799
Parish   Clonmellon
Alternative parish names   Killalon, Killan, Killon
Diocese   Meath
County   Meath, Westmeath
Country   Ireland
Father's first name(s)   Philip
Father's last name   Smith
Mother's first name(s)   Biddy
Mother's last name   Donnollan
Repository   
National Library of Ireland

First name(s)   Pat
Last name   Smith
Birth year   -
Baptism year   1797
Baptism date   26 Mar 1797
Parish   Clonmellon
Alternative parish names   Killalon, Killan, Killon
Diocese   Meath
County   Meath, Westmeath
Country   Ireland
Father's first name(s)   Philipp
Father's last name   Smith
Mother's first name(s)   Ann
Mother's last name   Leedy
Repository   
National Library of Ireland

First name(s)   Pat
Last name   Smith
Birth year   -
Baptism year   1796
Baptism date   13 Apr 1796
Parish   Clonmellon
Alternative parish names   Killalon, Killan, Killon
Diocese   Meath
County   Meath, Westmeath
Country   Ireland
Father's first name(s)   Thos
Father's last name   Smith
Mother's first name(s)   Biddy
Mother's last name   Lynch
Repository   
National Library of Ireland

McGaveston - Dublin-Ireland, France, New Zealand
White - Shalden, Alton, Chawton-Hampshire
O'Donnell - New Zealand, Co Down-Northern Ireland, USA
Franklin/Fraenkel - New Zealand, Prussia
Day - Echuca, Tongala, London, Fairford-Gloucestershire
Clark/McGraw - New Zealand, Ireland, England
McMahon -Ipswich-QLD, Kiladysart-Co Clare
Smith - Ipswich, Pine Mountain, Redbank-QLD, Co Westmeath, Co Cavan-Ireland
McGuire - Redbank - QLD, Co Westmeath-Ireland
Culhane - Queensland, Ardlaghan - Co Limerick

Offline Revolution

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
    • View Profile
Re: Smith and McGuire Families
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 04 April 20 01:52 BST (UK) »
I am unable to find many other baptisms for Margaret Black and none with William as a father (second born son of Patrick and Margaret was named William)

First name(s)   Margaret
Last name   Blacke
Birth year   -
Baptism year   1787
Baptism date   03 Dec 1787
Parish   Clonmellon
Alternative parish names   Killalon, Killan, Killon
Diocese   Meath
County   Meath, Westmeath
Country   Ireland
Father's first name(s)   Owen
Father's last name   Blacke
Mother's first name(s)   Mary
Mother's last name   Walsh
Repository   
National Library of Ireland

First name(s)   Margt
Last name   Black
Birth year   -
Baptism year   1799
Baptism date   23 Jan 1799
Parish   Dunshaughlin
Alternative parish names   Culallen, Culmullen, Dunshaughlin and Culmullen
Diocese   Meath
County   Meath
Country   Ireland
Father's first name(s)   Charles
Father's last name   Black
Mother's first name(s)   Elenore
Mother's last name   McLenan
Repository   
National Library of Ireland

First name(s)   Margt
Last name   Blake
Birth year   -
Baptism year   1797
Baptism date   19 Nov 1797
Parish   Castlepollard
Alternative parish names   Lickblea, Lickblea and Wheran, Rathgarraf, Wheran
Diocese   Meath
County   Westmeath
Country   Ireland
Father's first name(s)   Thos
Father's last name   Blake
Mother's first name(s)   Ann
Mother's last name   Ward
Repository   
National Library of Ireland

Patrick Smith may be in the Griffiths Valuation for Geehanstown in 1854. Geehanstown is in the Oldcastle reg district/ The closest deaths age wise I can find are (he may have died before 1865). There are no close records:

Name   PATRICK SMITH
Date of Death   1875
Group Registration ID   N/R
SR District/Reg Area   Oldcastle
Deceased Age at Death   84
Returns Year   1875
Returns Quarter   1
Returns Volume No   3
Returns Page No   301

Name   PATRICK SMITH
Date of Death   1886
Group Registration ID   6475361
SR District/Reg Area   Oldcastle
Deceased Age at Death   90
Died at Derrylea. Michael Smith the son of Derrylea was the informant and he was married and not listed as a widower.
McGaveston - Dublin-Ireland, France, New Zealand
White - Shalden, Alton, Chawton-Hampshire
O'Donnell - New Zealand, Co Down-Northern Ireland, USA
Franklin/Fraenkel - New Zealand, Prussia
Day - Echuca, Tongala, London, Fairford-Gloucestershire
Clark/McGraw - New Zealand, Ireland, England
McMahon -Ipswich-QLD, Kiladysart-Co Clare
Smith - Ipswich, Pine Mountain, Redbank-QLD, Co Westmeath, Co Cavan-Ireland
McGuire - Redbank - QLD, Co Westmeath-Ireland
Culhane - Queensland, Ardlaghan - Co Limerick

Offline hallmark

  • ~
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,525
    • View Profile
Re: Smith and McGuire Families
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 04 April 20 05:07 BST (UK) »


Did you look 1901 Census?  LINK  http://www.rootschat.com/links/01p9z/

They had at least five children baptised in the same parish under various spelling SMYTH, SMITH, etc.


 e.g
Nov 06 1827 Thomas  http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Westmeath/Kilcumny/Kilcumny/1778432/

Jan 19 1830 William
Aug 09 1834 Philip
May 22 1832 James
Sep 06 1836 Mary
Give a man a record and you feed him for a day.
Teach a man to research, and you feed him for a lifetime.

Offline Revolution

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
    • View Profile
Re: Smith and McGuire Families
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 18 March 21 02:35 GMT (UK) »
Apologies for the long delay.

I did not look at the 1901 census but have done so now.

That Thomas may have married Judith/Julia Heagan/Keogan/Kogan and had Marcella, Bridget and Mary.

I think Marcella marries Patrick Kelly in 1883 in Roscommon.

There is a Jane Smyth marrying William Kennedy in 1889 in Co Antrim but I cannot find a birth for a John Kennedy (son) to suit that date. Thomas Smyth is listed a s mechanic. Im assuming its the old term being used.

At the baptism of Mary Smyth in 1861 there is a John Smyth and Margaret Keogan as sponsors.

I think I have found the death for Thomas Smyth in 1903 in Kilcumny. Bridget Smyth the daughter was present at death.
McGaveston - Dublin-Ireland, France, New Zealand
White - Shalden, Alton, Chawton-Hampshire
O'Donnell - New Zealand, Co Down-Northern Ireland, USA
Franklin/Fraenkel - New Zealand, Prussia
Day - Echuca, Tongala, London, Fairford-Gloucestershire
Clark/McGraw - New Zealand, Ireland, England
McMahon -Ipswich-QLD, Kiladysart-Co Clare
Smith - Ipswich, Pine Mountain, Redbank-QLD, Co Westmeath, Co Cavan-Ireland
McGuire - Redbank - QLD, Co Westmeath-Ireland
Culhane - Queensland, Ardlaghan - Co Limerick