Author Topic: George Draper  (Read 2037 times)

Offline serra

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George Draper
« on: Monday 31 August 15 17:28 BST (UK) »
 I need help with finding the following family and any details anyone has about them

Father  - George Draper (roughly 1868)
Mother  - Ann Baines born 1863 leighton buzzard

If you look at the 1901 Census for Cooling St James, Hoo, Kent you will see

George and Annie Draper with their 5 children



I only found Levi registered as Draper, his father was registered as George Draper and his mother was registered as Ann Draper formerly Scotchings. Index for birth found levi draper born 1893 at hoo Levi had a daughter Norah

Israel was registered as Smith, his father was registered as George Smith and his mother Angelina Smith formerly Cutchings. Index found for birth isreal Smith born 1895 Leighton Buzzard

Ernest was also registered as Smith, his father was registered as George Smith and his mother Ann Selina Smith formerly Cotchin. Index for birth found for ernest smith 1897 in Leighton Buzzard

Finally, Nelly Betsy Smith, her father was registered as George Smith and her mother Ann Smith formerly Scotchin. Index for birth found 1896 nelly betsy smith 1898 hoo

George Draper ( possibly 1886) I have not yet found a birth registration, but I suspect the he will have been registered as Smith as well. So during the Census they said their surname was Draper yet when registering a birth they quoted Smith except for Levi. They must of known what they were doing. Found a marriage for George Draper to Alice Smith 1916 Hoo, need to check this out.

Im trying to find out the smith coneection and why he registered his children smith, and for any details of his parents and where he come from....so confused, really need some help. I am the great grand daughter of nelly

sarah

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Offline Annie65115

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Re: George Draper
« Reply #1 on: Monday 31 August 15 18:07 BST (UK) »
A few questions:

Have you found any members of the family in 1911? -- or in fact in any other censuses?

Where do you get the Baines surname from for Annie?

Did your ancestor Nelly marry, and if so, where and when? Do you have the marriage certificate?

With names like Levi and Israel I would suspect that the family had either Jewish or non-conformist roots so may not be found in the usual baptism records. Similarly, many Jewish families anglicised their surnames. A possibility?
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Leic)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Cheshire/Leicester)

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Offline Annie65115

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Re: George Draper
« Reply #2 on: Monday 31 August 15 18:10 BST (UK) »
OK - is this the marriage?

Marriages Mar 1892   
Baines    Angelina        Leighton B    3b   515    
HOPKINS    Mary Ann         Leighton B.    3b   515    
Radford    Richard         Leighton B.    3b   515    
Smith    George         Leighton B.    3b   515    

do you have the certificate for this?
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Leic)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Cheshire/Leicester)

Offline Annie65115

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Re: George Draper
« Reply #3 on: Monday 31 August 15 18:22 BST (UK) »
1891 - Stoke, Kent
George Draper, farm labourer, age 25, pob unknown
Angelina Draper, wife, age 26, pob unknown
George Draper, son, age 5, pob Rochester, Kent
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Leic)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Cheshire/Leicester)

Offline serra

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Re: George Draper
« Reply #4 on: Monday 31 August 15 18:34 BST (UK) »
Thankyou for your help.

Ann baines is the daughter if kisby draper and ann cotchins
On the 1901 census in my first post you will see that the children are birth registered with the mother showing cotchings, scotchings or variations of it. There is also a Leighton buzzard link. I believe i have found the right family as isreal and levi are as u say unsual, but nellys son is still alive and confirmed that she did have isreal and levi as brothers. But he never understood the Smith naming. He also believes that his grandfathers name was George Draper. Nelly married my great grandfather william Arnold kent and i have done very well following the arnold line. Nelly was always known as nelly draper, as far as we know her father was george draper but that cant be confirmed. I ideally would like to know about nellys dad george. Im wondering was he a "draper or a smith" and did the "draper" name come from ann baines becuase of her father being Kisby Draper. I want to complete as best i can this part of my tree, my granduncle would really like to know, and as he is ageing i would like to give him a correct history of his ancestors

1861 census:
Although the first name is spelt slightly differently, and the surname is completely different, this must be the same person, since Kisby Cotching marries Ann Baines and all the children change their surname by 1871! "Breckhill" is presumably "Brick Hill", very close to the Beds border and near Woburn.

Kisbee Draper, 24, b. Breckhill, Bucks, Lodger Head, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Baines, 23, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Housekeeper, Leighton Buzzard
Charles Baines, 2, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Housekeeper Son, Leighton Buzzard
Ann S Baines, 1, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Housekeeper Daur, Leighton Buzzard

1871 census:
Note how Ann, Charles and Ann S Baines above are now all "Cotching". The age of Kisby must be a mistranscription, i.e. it should be 35, not 55. Birth place must be "Beds, Woburn Sands"

Kisby Cotching, 55, b. Bedcks, Woburn Lands, Head, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Cotching, 33, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Wife, Leighton Buzzard
Charles Cotching, 12, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Cotching, 10, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Daughter, Leighton Buzzard
Elizabeth Cotching, 8, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Daughter, Leighton Buzzard
William Cotching, 6, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Maria Cotching, 4, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Daughter, Leighton Buzzard
John Cotching, 2, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard

1881 census:
A slight variation on the surname spelling.

Kisby Cotchin, 44, b. Woburn Sands, Beds, Head, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Cotchin, 43, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Wife, Leighton Buzzard
William Cotchin, 16, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Mary Cotchin, 14, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Daughter, Leighton Buzzard
John Cotchin, 12, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Darney Cotchin, 8, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Daughter, Leighton Buzzard
Thomas Cotchin, 4, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Ernest Cotchin, 3, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Sam Cotchin, 3 months, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard

1891 census:
Another variation on the surname spelling (and Kisby's age)

Kisby Scotchings, 60, (Place of birth not given), Head, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Scotchings, 53, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Wife, Leighton Buzzard
Thomas Scotchings, 14, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
Ernest Scotchings, 13, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
William Scotchings, 8, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Son, Leighton Buzzard
(Sam Cotching had died in 1882 q1)

1901 census:
Possibly a transcription error in the surname this time...

Kisby Colchin, 66, b. Woburn Sands, Bucks, Head, Leighton Buzzard
Ann Colchin, 63, b. Leighton Buzzard, Beds, Wife, Leighton Buzzard

Marriage registration from IGI:

Kisby Cotching & Ann Baines
26/06/1864, Leighton Buzzard, England
Husband age at marriage: 27
Wife age at marriage: 26
No father of groom/bride given

Offline serra

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Re: George Draper
« Reply #5 on: Monday 31 August 15 18:39 BST (UK) »
Thankyou I will have a look into this lead

:1891 - Stoke, Kent
George Draper, farm labourer, age 25, pob unknown
Angelina Draper, wife, age 26, pob unknown
George Draper, son, age 5, pob Rochester, Kent

Offline Darnity

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Re: George Draper
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 01 September 16 14:04 BST (UK) »
Serra,

Kisby was quite a character having 14 known children by two, sometimes concurrent, partners Ann BAINES and Cinderella SMITH/BELDAM and was often being mentioned in the press - do a  newspaper search for him and you'll find a number of references.

Kisby was one of the sons of William (Billy) and Mary DRAPER. She was a COTCHIN although I've not found a marriage and I've been looking for a very long time. Cotchin has a variety of different spellings including Cotchin, Cotchings, Scotching, Scutcheon.

Billy and Mary's known children are

Ellen - married RAINBOW
Darnitty - married WHITLOCK
Spencer - uses DRAPER and SMITH
Billy jnr
Kisby - uses DRAPER and COTCHIN
Elick (Alexander) - uses DRAPER and SMITH

Billy and Mary are buried at Woburn Sands in Milton Keynes and Billy's his mother Eleanor is buried at Bow Brickhill, Milton Keynes. Billy had a brother Israel hence the use of the name in later generations.

Look for these people on the Travelling People board and you'll find other mentions of the family.

Also have a look at the "1841 census - Kisby Cotching" thread on the  Bedfordshire lookup requests board.

You'll also find mention of Kisby on the Gypsy Genealogy site http://www.gypsygenealogy.com/
Gypsy DRAPERs, children of Billy and Mary - Ellen,Darnity,Spencer,Billy Jnr,Kisby,Ellick
Descendants of Fred and Esther (Garrett) WHITLOCK - Wavendon, Woburn Sands area
Descendants of George and Barbara (Willis) SUTTON - Earls Barton and Nether Heyford
BISSELL - Hanslope, New Bradwell, Bucks and Aston, Birmingham area
Lavinia DRAPER died 1840 Cranfield
Gypsies in the Bow Brickhill and Beds/Bucks border areas

Offline emjsw

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Re: George Draper
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 14 December 17 21:36 GMT (UK) »
I have been researching my family tree and have just discovered I am related to Mary Ann Smith (Daughter of Spencer Draper Smith and Annie Smith), she married William Cosby. I noticed that you have an interest in many people that I have discovered I am related to as well, which is why I contacted you to say hello, I hope you don't mind? I am really new to all of this, in fact this is my first ever post!!! I think the Cosby's might have connections to Ireland but I am not sure!
I don't know much yet about the Drapers/Smiths yet but am starting to learn. If anyone is interested in the Cosby family I am happy to share what I know.
Best wishes  :)
Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
Garret/Stacey (Somerset)
Boultern/Boulton (Reading)
Crowther (Wolverhampton/Wednesbury/Birmingham)
Myres (Wolverhampton)
Cosby (Leighton Buzzard/Woodstock/Kidlington)
Hope (Oxford/Kidlington/Woodstock)
Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
Draper (Bow Brickhill)
Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)

Offline Darnity

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Re: George Draper
« Reply #8 on: Friday 15 December 17 08:30 GMT (UK) »
Hello EMJSW - very pleased to meet anyone related to the Billy and Mary DRAPER family.

Have a look on the Travelling People board as you may find more info of interest and, if you don't already know about them, the Romany and Traveller Family History Society www.rtfhs.org.uk and Eric's GypsyGenealogy site http://www.gypsygenealogy.com/ where the family get mentioned in a number of articles.

I'll try and get in touch with you using  a personal message (PM) as I think I have some info about Mary Anne's marriage somewhere in my data.




Gypsy DRAPERs, children of Billy and Mary - Ellen,Darnity,Spencer,Billy Jnr,Kisby,Ellick
Descendants of Fred and Esther (Garrett) WHITLOCK - Wavendon, Woburn Sands area
Descendants of George and Barbara (Willis) SUTTON - Earls Barton and Nether Heyford
BISSELL - Hanslope, New Bradwell, Bucks and Aston, Birmingham area
Lavinia DRAPER died 1840 Cranfield
Gypsies in the Bow Brickhill and Beds/Bucks border areas