William Stephen and wife

[ruthhelen]

The names of some of Elsie and James Smith's children might help us. Here's the ones I could find easily:

• William Alexander Smith
• Edith Bertha Smith
• Alice Maud Victoria Smith
• Eleanor Elsie James Smith
• Ernest John Mackie Stephen Smith
• Charlotte Estella Smith
• Lillian Jessie May Smith
• Beatrice Ethel Daisy Smith
• Charles James Simeon Smith

I can't find Minnie/Annie - although she could be Wilhelmina, or even Amelia...

Ernest John Mackie Stephen Smith is the one that interests me the most - although given that James Smith was from Aberdeenshire, this could be a name from his family...

Ruth

[simon tree]

Hi Ruth
Sorry been out on this sunny day need to catch up
 Yes James and Elsie are correct I have his Naval records went all over the world Elsie stayed at home apart from going to Greenock with him which is where Alice was born a twin to Walter Robert Bruce 27 April 1873 he died in 1875
William was my gg grandfather

Thanks Simon

[loobylooayr]

Well done on finding those names Ruthhelen  - that's a fair bit of work 

Perhaps if Simon can give us the names and years of birth of the Stephen children we could get some clues from their names and a better idea of the year of marriage.

Btw- there was a Martha Stephen/Stevens/Stephens at East Stonehouse Devon born approx. 1815 on English 1891 Census . Perhaps this is the lady whose death you found in 1893?

Looby

[ruthhelen]

Perhaps if Simon can give us the names and years of birth of the Stephen children we could get some clues from their names and a better idea of the year of marriage.

From the census records, I can see three children: Elsie b. abt. 1847, Maker; George b. abt. 1847, Maker (he vanishes after the 1851 census); and Mary b. abt. 1849, Maker (can't find her after 1861, but she could have married before 1871).

Btw- there was a Martha Stephen/Stevens/Stephens at East Stonehouse Devon born approx. 1815 on English 1891 Census . Perhaps this is the lady whose death you found in 1893?

Yes, just noticed her. There doesn't appear to be another death at an appropriate time in East Stonehouse for our Mary Stephen. There's a death for a Mary Stephen, birth approx 1820, in 1899 in Devonport... which according to my (admittedly scant) knowledge of that area, isn't a million miles away... Devonport and Stonehouse are now both parts of Plymouth, if I'm not mistaken... 

Ruth

[loobylooayr]

Yes that death looks a good possibility Ruthhelen I'm no expert on English BMD's , Iknow the birth regs don't usually have Mother's maiden name, but what about death certs, Would that entry have Mary Stephen's maiden surname recorded.

If those are all the children , there's not been that many for the times.
Elsie is not that common a name in Scotland as this time , I would say. As for Eloy as a variation for Elsie which Simon mentions in his earlier post, well I'll hold up my hands and admit that I've never heard of that one. There is a 4 year old called Eloya in Aberdeenshire on the 1841 (only person in Scotland) and about 4 with a variation of the name in 1851.

Looby

[ruthhelen]

As for Eloy as a variation for Elsie which Simon mentions in his earlier post, well I'll hold up my hands and admit that I've never heard of that one. There is a 4 year old called Eloya in Aberdeenshire on the 1841 (only person in Scotland) and about 4 with a variation of the name in 1851.

I'm pretty certain that's a transcription error from the 1851 census records - looking at the actual image, it appears to be Elsy - but I can see how the transcriber thought it might be Eloy 

[ruthhelen]

I think Elsy/Elsie and George may have been twins - there's a birth registered for both an Elsy Stephens and a George Stephens in Jan 1847, St Germans, Cornwall - and they are shown as the same age in the 1851 census...

Which would fit with what Simon said about Elsie's daughter Alice being a twin - multiple births tending to wander down the generations... My grandfather was a twin, and my brother has triplets 

Ruth

[loobylooayr]

I'm pretty certain that's a transcription error from the 1851 census records - looking at the actual image, it appears to be Elsy - but I can see how the transcriber thought it might be Eloy 

Well that makes sense  as does George and Elsie being twins if they have same age on 1851 Census.
Unfortunately none of this really enlightens us as to who William and Mary Stephen were and where they originally came from.

Simon ? There is a William Stephens marries September quarter 1845 at St Germans Cornwall - have you established that he isn't the man you are looking for. Name obviously, area and the year of birth first baby/babies all fits well .

Looby

[loobylooayr]

Regarding the 1845 marriage at St Germans of a William Stephens.
The other 3 names on the registration index are:
Elizabeth Brown
Mary Sibellah Ley
Augustin Pritchard.

Interesting that it's a 50% chance that William Stephens married a Mary 

Looby