Henry Jones baptism in Llanartheny about 1810

[despair]

Just to re-emphasise,I'm now convinced that Henry's parents are David and Elizabeth Jones seen at Parkydeunaw in 1841,with David's will of 1854 being at NLW.If so,Henry's brother David is in the next door property Cae'r Cwm in 1841.Henry's daughter Mary is in occupation of Parkydeunaw in 1861 after 1855 marriage.Assuming Elizabeth is David's first wife(given born 1786 in 1841 with usual rounding caveat) that is the marriage to find.Can't establish baptisms to help with marriage timing yet.

Regards
Roger

[ianocon]

OK that makes sense - so David Jones/ Mary Hugh must be a separate Jones line.
I'm just going to put this info in my tree - I'm having trouble keeping hold of the links!
Ian

[despair]

My only concern in the solution I envisaged is that Henry's first two children are David and Mary-could this reflect his parent's names?Is the Elizabeth at Parkdeunaw in 1841 some other relation than his wife,or possibly a subsequent wife.The argument goes back again to trying to  find the baptisms.Perhaps,also,John and Ann as 3rd and 4th children are his wife's parents names?
I would like someone else's view on the validity of the argument,I wouldn't want to mislead you.

Regards
Roger

[osprey]

Don't know if this is of any help but there's a marriage in Llanarthney 29 Dec 1804 of David John, yeoman, and Elizabeth Williams. he signed, she made her mark, witnesses were Thos. Thomas, W. Morgan & John Daniel.

[despair]

There is also,I think,an 1810 with David John and Elizabeth Stephens,which could just fall into consideration.

Regards
Roger

[ianocon]

Hi Roger and osprey.
You are wonderfully fast with data - I'm learning there are many more sources than I imagined!
You have convinced me that the David Jones of Parkydaunaw b.abt 1780 must be my Henry's father.
What I find compelling is the "will" link you have established to son Henry and granddaughter Mary together with the family continuity with Parkydaunaw. To add to that it seems possible that Mary 22 (daughter of henry) is the servant at Parkyd in 1851 with widower David Jones.
The only slight inconsistency is Mary's birthplace is given as  Conwill in 1871whereas in other censuses she is born Llanartheny.
It also seems likely that Elizabeth is the wife at least in 1841 and those 1804, 1810 marriage dates are possibilities. However, there was a big gap between Henry's birth abt 1810 and that census, so David 1780 could have been married before and then Elizabeth and he both married later in life?
Roger, why your concern that Henry's first two children are David and Mary?  Was the custom of naming of children after parents so strong and if so what would people do if they named but then lost a first child - this could have happened to henry and mary?
thanks again Ian

[despair]

Yes,I wondered about that Mary in 1851 as the daughter is not with Henry at Rhydysarnau,though she should be identified as granddaughter,jf so.I suspect it is her,it would make sense.I really don't know if the naming conventions were that strong but I do feel that patronymic naming will have a part in the baptismal hunt for Henry and his parents marriage

Regards
Roger

[despair]

Speculation on a possible partial set of baptismal records that could match the family in the 1854 will,all Llanarthne:-

March 1804             Henry  of  David John and Elizabeth          No abode
January 1805           Thomas of David John and Elizabeth          Ditto
November 1808        Dan of David John                                  Of Cwmdu*

*Cwmdu is next to Parkydaunaw in the 1841 census with Cae'r Cwm on the other side.Obviously a reasonable difference in the expectation of the date for Henry.I'm not sure how to regard this.

Regards
Roger

[ianocon]

Um!
I think you have found the family of the will alright and the births tie up with David and Elizabeth perhaps being the couple mentioned by osprey married Llanarthney 29 Dec 1804 - However the Henry birth date is concerning isn't it.
He was pretty consistent in his stated ages from 1841 thro 91 with est date range for birth of 1809 to 1813.
Ok it's possible he didn't know his birth for sure and stuck  with a story, however at his first marriage in 1827 he was marked underage and surely he (and his father) wouldn't have done that unless he really was underage - the 1804 date would have put him as 23 which wouldn't have been considered underage would it?.
I said "Um" because the rest of the story fits together so well although as I look at the data there are several Mary Jones who were single and servants in Llanartheny in 1851 so it wouldn't necessarily have had to be my Henry's who inherited.
I've started going back thro the records but can't immediately see another Henry route for the moment.
Any  thoughts about my reasoning?
Ian