Henry Jones baptism in Llanartheny about 1810

[despair]

Your reasoning seems perfectly valid,I have serious reservations myself.No valid alternative at the moment,still looking(including Harry as the equivalent of Henry)

Regards
Roger

[despair]

Missing from my previous speculation was the David Jones of Cae'r Cwm of the 1854 will.I have found his marriage to Jemimah in 1841 consistent with the 1851 census when David's birth is given as 1817.Sure enough there is a baptismal record for David Jones(not John) in 1817,the son of David and Elizabeth of Cwm Du.Perhaps the change of "surname" from John to Jones accompanies the change of recording format,commonly 1812/13.
As regards the "consent of parents" issue,presumably this would apply even if only one of the parties was under age e.g Mary David/Davies

It still feels we have the right family,I'm trying to convince myself re the baptisms.Hopefully to be continued...

Regards
Roger

[despair]

I'm beginning to develop an alternative view that Henry Jones baptised 1804 is not the son of David Jones, Parkydaunaw,1854 will, but possibly,and remarkably,the son of his father,David Jones,Danyrallt 1837 will,by his second wife Elizabeth*.This could mean that both father and son are producing children in the early 1800s by wives called Elizabeth.This may take a little sorting.
It may explain the phrase in the 1837 will where David Jones refers to his children William and David(future Parkydaunaw,I think),and the children of his wife Elizabeth viz. Thomas,Henry(1804,I think) and Elizabeth.I m currently trying to place the various Dan/Daniels involved which are possibly key,but confusing.

*Added-it is of course possible these were her children by a previous marriage of her own.

Regards
Roger

[ianocon]

I will be interested to hear if the Dan/Daniel data turns up anything interesting.
I've looked at the 1837 will. I can see there is some uncertainty over the children's origins. It is not clear that Thomas, Henry and Elizabeth are HIS children! It looks as if he had a second marriage to Elizabeth but, as you say, she could have brought the children with her.
Arguing against that is the Administration part of the will which grants to Thomas and Henry - both Jones - if they had another father they would surely have carried his name - unless it was another Jones!
In the Adnministration section of the will, I'm puzzled by the Henry Jones of "The Prince Saxe Colburg". I googled to see if it was a pub but can't find that. Since my Henry was a smith, this would be the wrong Henry if he was a publican. I suppose he could have been in the German army!

In the interest of covering all bases, can I go back to an earlier reference you made to another possible marriage between David Jones and a Mary Hugh in Llannon in 1807. That would seem to have appropriate timing for Henry born 1810. possibly with elder brother David. (I'm thinking again about those other trees on Ancestry with their reference to a marriage between David Jones and Mary Haugh (or Hugh?) with sons David and Henry. Unfortunately the tree owners have not yet responded to my requests for info.)
Can you see any baptism info that ties in with that David and Mary - although Henry census returns say birth in llanartheny I suppose he could have been baptised in Llannon - Mary's parish?
I'm trying to pursue this but can't turn up baptism records in the way you can.
Regards Ian

[ianocon]

Hi Roger
One additional possibility but is it too far fetched?
You mentioned Henry David b. Llanarthne 1810 but with father David Thomas.
There is marriage of Elizabeth Thomas to David Jones (widower) on 24/10/1820
Is it possible Henry dropped the Thomas name when his mother remarried?
Ian

[despair]

Interesting thoughts there,lots of options to consider,may be a while!

Regards
Roger

[despair]

To be clear,I was not considering the Henry of the 1837 will as your Henry,but thinking he might be the Henry baptised 1804.(Your Henry is the son of David of Parkydaunaw,who I believe may be the son of David of Danyrallt.)
I think I have traced the Henry Jones of The Prince Saxe Coburg(it is in Llanddarog).Would you  believe that in the 1851 census he is given as married to an Elizabeth and born 1809 in Llanarthne(y)!

Regards
Roger

[despair]

The Thomas Jones of the 1837 will(...her children"..) marries Priscilla Evans in 1838 and gives his father as David Jones(deceased).This probably suggests he is the son of David and his second wife Elizabeth of Danyrallt
I am only pursuing this family because in the 1841 census for Thomas and Priscilla there is a Dan Jones,given born 1811 who also appears in the 1871 census as a nephew of Priscilla.I wondered if he was the Daniel of the 1854 will,hence a brother of your Henry.Perhaps if his baptism could be found it would lead to Henry's.

Regards
Roger

[despair]

There are two records,of the same date,which I think may be the Dan(iel) at Danyrallt

Dan David  1808  Father David John Cumdu   (Wales Births and Baptisms)(Llanarthne)
Dan John   1808  Father David                       (Carmarthen Baptisms)(Llanarethne)

To illustrate the difficulty(as if that was necessary) of identifying these records with the person at Danyrallt here are the census records

1841    Dan Jones   1811      -            Ag Lab
1851    Daniel         1815    Servant    Ag Lab
1861    Dann          1806       -           Carter
1871    Dan            1811    Nephew    Servant

If it is possible to accept that the baptismal and census records are the same person,it's probably also possible to accept that these 1804 records for Henry are your Henry.

Henry David       1804   Father David John            (Wales Births and Baptisms)(Llanarthney)
Henry John         1804  Father David  Mother Elizabeth     Carmarthen Llanarthney.

I still can't find as better fit or solution,but I'm still uneasy about it,because of the probable proximity in timing of the birth of the Henry of Danyrallt.The Thomas from there was probably 1800+/-1(1799),so 1804 for that Henry is not impossible(though his father would be 60,wife Elizabeth unknown)

Regards
Roger