HAMILL, Patrick & Sarah McCall

[jr9355]

I have spent a huge amount of time and money being led down the garden path, unfortunately.  I would appreciate some help trying to work out this story.

Patrick Hamill (also spelled Hammill, Hamell, Hamil, etc)
Born circa 1821 in Ireland.

Married to:

Sarah McCall (also spelled McColl)
Born circa 1827 in Ireland.

Had a son:
John Hamill
Born circa 1864

Who married: (17th July 1882)
Rose Ann Eccles

I cannot for the life of me read what the Nee is written as.  Perhaps someone more skilled than I am would care to venture a guess?

They had two children that I know of:
John Hamill born circa 1864 who married Catherine Milne (no details known)
Mary Hamill born circa 1851


Attached: John Hamill and Rose Ann Eccles marriage certificate.

They were Roman Catholics and the whole family seems to be based in the Gorbals/Hutchestown area. 

Here is a snapshot of the 1861 census which provided this info (along with a living relative to confirm it)

Name   Mary Hamill
Age   10
Estimated Birth Year   abt 1851
Relationship   Daughter
Father's Name   Patrick Hamill
Mother's Name   Sarah Hamill
Gender   Female
Where born   Govan, Glasgow
Registration Number   644/10
Registration district   Hutchesontown
Civil parish   Glasgow Govan
County   Lanarkshire
Address   16 St Ninian St
Occupation   Scholar
ED   66
Household schedule number   26
Line   3
Roll   CSSCT1861_112
Household Members   
Name   Age
Patrick Hamill   35
Sarah Hamill   34
Mary Hamill   10
John Mcnee   28
Henry McIntyne   24
John Dacherty   17
Francis Dacherty   14

And the 1871 census:

Record Image Index-only record
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Name:   Patrick Hammell
Age:   43
Estimated birth year:   abt 1828
Relationship:   Head
Spouse's name :   Sarah Hammell
Gender:   Male
Where born:   Ireland
Registration Number:   644/10
Registration district:   Hutchesontown
Civil Parish:   Glasgow Govan
County:   Lanarkshire
Address:   261/2 Hospital St
Occupation:   General Dolder
ED:   78
Household schedule number:   63
LINE:   4
Roll:   CSSCT1871_142
Household Members:   
Name   Age
Patrick Hammell   43
Sarah Hammell   47
James Mcnee   24
Mary Mcnee   17
Andw Wilkie   26
Andw Wilkie   10

By this time, Mary Hamill has married James McNee.


I have searched in vein for details of Patrick Hamill.  He appears on these census records and then vanishes.

I know that Sarah Hamill has died before 1882 as per the marriage certificate. 

I would be hugely appreciative to anyone able to shine any light on this whatsoever.

Many thanks.

[DonM]

Was this young couple first cousins?

You lost me with "Nee" unless you mean the mother's maiden name with would be Hughs for Rose and McColl for John.

Or if you are questioning the name under Rose "X" it the witness to her mark someone named Nat (Nathan?) Chisholm the same signature of the Chisholm in the witness box far right.

If this is not what you seek pick a box heading and post it.

Don

[jr9355]

Was this young couple first cousins?

You lost me with "Nee" unless you mean the mother's maiden name with would be Hughs for Rose and McColl for John.

Or if you are questioning the name under Rose "X" it the witness to her mark someone named Nat (Nathan?) Chisholm the same signature of the Chisholm in the witness box far right.

If this is not what you seek pick a box heading and post it.

Don

Many thanks Don.  Yes, by Nee, I did mean Maiden name.  I thought that was common usage.

I have discovered it is McCall.

I have been advised by ScotlandsPeople that it may indeed have been relations...  But I can't find any further details, nor can they assist.

Rose Ann Hamill was previously married to Charles Eccles.  Her maiden name is therefore McCall, as far as I can gather.

[MonicaL]

Hi jr9355 and Don

Welcome to RootsChat, jr9355   

Have you got census entries for John and his wife after his marriage in 1882? It is just that the census entry you posted for 1871 doesn't show a John son in the household...

I wondered whether this entry in Ireland for a possible sibling and child to a Patrick Hamill and Sarah McCall might be relevant to your John and his family https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FR92-R8W

Monica

[MonicaL]

In that 1882 marriage reg for John and Rose Ann, John's father showing as a farmer (can have number of meanings such as agricultural labourer, small crofter etc.) Doesn't fit well for a Patrick in Lanarkshire from those census entries you have as records unfortunately...

Monica

[jr9355]

In that 1882 for John and Rose Ann, John's father showing as a farmer (can have number of meanings such as agricultural labourer, small crofter etc.) Doesn't fit well for a Patrick in Lanarkshire from those census entries you have as records unfortunately...

Monica

Thank you Monica.

I fear you are right!  The marriage certificate being dated 1882 would suggest that was his active occupation. 

His son:  Of this much, I am certain

1891 Scotland Census
VIEW RECORD
Name   John Hamill
Age   42
Estimated Birth Year   abt 1849
Relationship   Head
Spouse's Name   Rose Ann Hamill
Gender   Male
Where born   Ireland
Registration Number   644/11
Registration district   Hutchesontown
Civil parish   Glasgow Govan
County   Lanarkshire
Address   No 59 Crown Street
Occupation   Hammerman
ED   1
Household schedule number   100
Line   9
Roll   CSSCT1891_285
Household Members   
Name   Age
John Hamill   42
Rose Ann Hamill   49
Patrick Hamill   7
John Hamill   5
Philip Hamill   3
James Eccles   18
Charles Eccles   16
William Eccles   13

1901 Scotland Census
VIEW RECORD
Name   John Hammill
Age   50
Estimated Birth Year   abt 1851
Relationship   Head
Spouse's Name   Royoan Hammill
Gender   Male
Where born   Ireland
Registration Number   644/11
Registration district   Hutchesontown
Civil parish   Glasgow Govan
County   Lanarkshire
Address   28 So Shamrock Str
Occupation   Hammerman (smiths)
ED   11
Household schedule number   93
Line   18
Roll   CSSCT1901_308
Household Members   
Name   Age
John Hammill   50
Royoan Hammill   52
Patrick Hammill   17
John Hammill   16
Felix Hammill   14
James Eccles   29
Charles Eccles   27


The transcriptions are poor.  Felix is actually Philip and Royoan is Rose Ann....

[MonicaL]

Hey...you are talking to the over mistranscribed lot here on RC

I do think John's roots are certainly an Irish family and Irish born for him, as you have him on his 1891 and 1901 censuses after his marriages. He may have been the only one of his family to have come over to Scotland, or maybe he came with some siblings?

Have you got his death cert? If so, did it match his parents' details from his marriage?

Monica

[MonicaL]

From the 1882 marriage registration, John's age showing as 27, so born c. 1855 or so. However, 1891 and 1901 show him as born earlier don't they - 1849 to 1851.

Monica

[jr9355]

From the 1882 marriage registration, John's age showing as 27, so born c. 1855 or so. However, 1891 and 1901 show him as born earlier don't they - 1849 to 1851.

Monica

I had assumed this was within the margin of errors that ancestry have for their transcriptions.  None of their dates tie in 100%.

I'm going to visit the Mitchell Library in Glasgow this week to hunt for the death certificate.  As I don't know his date of death, it would cost too much to Payperview on ScotlandsPeople's website.

I'm certain that the census info is correct.  My family connections were aware of an Eccles in the family history, so that much is pretty certain.

Thanks again for your help