Author Topic: Succoth or Sucoll, The Cabrach, Aberdeenshire  (Read 5575 times)

Offline AncesStory

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Succoth or Sucoll, The Cabrach, Aberdeenshire
« on: Sunday 13 September 15 23:49 BST (UK) »
According to an 1851 census return, an ancestor, Mary Stewart nee Bain, was born c 1775 out of the county  in a place called Succoth, Aberdeenshire. I downloaded the original census material from SP and the name is definitely Succoth. Would I be right in thinking this is in the lower Cabrach area, south of the river Deveron - near Glen Glass?
DUFFUS of Edinburgh, Scotland/Murray/Coulter/Anderson/Cauvin/McGillivray/Carstairs
FALLEN, /Dunbartonshire & Partick /Cherry/Main/Gallacher
SCOTT of Gladsmuir/Pencaitland East Lothian
STEVEN of  Caithness, Edinburgh, Scotland/Campbell/Calder/McManus/Waugh/Hoy/Cadzian
McKENZIE of Glenisla, Forfarshire/Farquharson/Robertson/Jack/McNicol/Tosh

Offline CaroleW

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Re: Succoth, Aberdeenshire
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 13 September 15 23:58 BST (UK) »
According to Google it's here


http://www.rootschat.com/links/01g47/
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline AncesStory

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Re: Succoth, Aberdeenshire
« Reply #2 on: Monday 14 September 15 00:04 BST (UK) »
Attached an enlargement of the placename as in 1851 census.
Piece: SCT1851/338 Place: Cargill -Perth Enumeration District: 4
Civil Parish: Cargill Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Cargill
Folio: 338 Page: 3 Schedule: 15
Address: Adam Street

    STEWART   Mary   Head   W   F   75   Pauper    Aberdeenshire - Succoth(Originally: Aberdeenshire - Sucoll)   
DUFFUS of Edinburgh, Scotland/Murray/Coulter/Anderson/Cauvin/McGillivray/Carstairs
FALLEN, /Dunbartonshire & Partick /Cherry/Main/Gallacher
SCOTT of Gladsmuir/Pencaitland East Lothian
STEVEN of  Caithness, Edinburgh, Scotland/Campbell/Calder/McManus/Waugh/Hoy/Cadzian
McKENZIE of Glenisla, Forfarshire/Farquharson/Robertson/Jack/McNicol/Tosh

Offline GR2

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Re: Succoth or Sucoll, Aberdeenshire
« Reply #3 on: Monday 14 September 15 06:15 BST (UK) »
The Spalding Club's "Place-names of Aberdeenshire" says:

Succoth, Glass. A farm. Pronounced the Succuth, the Socoth. same word as Socath, from soc, a snout, from the projections of the slopes above it. Succothbeg, Little Succoth, adjoins it.

Under "Socath", all the places mentioned are hills.

James Godsman's "Glass Aberdeenshire the story of a parish", has entries for Succoth in Glass and in the Cabrach. He does not mention any Bains there.



Offline Forfarian

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Re: Succoth, Aberdeenshire
« Reply #4 on: Monday 14 September 15 10:07 BST (UK) »
According to Google it's here http://www.rootschat.com/links/01g47/

Wouldn't it be great if Google knew everything there is to know ;)
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline DonM

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Re: Succoth or Sucoll, Aberdeenshire
« Reply #5 on: Monday 14 September 15 11:14 BST (UK) »
The Succoth in question is actually here.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.408203,-2.9675803,14z

However which farm is it.  As one can see in this NLS map link there is one in Glass and if you look south along the Deveron there is another http://maps.nls.uk/view/74400156  And if you look at Roy's 1747-52 map they exist then as well.

There could have been many more in Aberdeen in the 18th C

Don

I have turned off all email notifications, thank you.

Offline AncesStory

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Re: Succoth or Sucoll, Aberdeenshire
« Reply #6 on: Monday 14 September 15 16:29 BST (UK) »
The Succoth in question is actually here.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.408203,-2.9675803,14z

However which farm is it. 
Don

Thanks for responding DonM and GR2 - since posting yesterday I have done a little more online research and did find mention of Succoth in Strathdeveron in various land transactions. I was a bit puzzled by the name Succoth appearing twice in the 1832 Thompson map until I realized that the Succoth to the east of the river Deveron refers to the  hill (also called  The Succoch) and there is a small tributary of The Deveron named the Succoth.
http://maps.nls.uk/atlas/thomson/index.html

According to Macfarlane's geographical collections on Scotland, written about 1725, Succoth was one of a few  "gentleman's seats" in The Cabrach:

"The parioch of Cabrach is in the diocese of Aberdeen, and partly in that shire, namely, the south side of Doveran ; and partly in Bamfshire, namely, the north side of Doveran. The church lyes upon the river of Royster, twenty-eight miles north-west from Aberdeen. Gentlemens seats here are, Lismurdie, four miles east, The Soccoch, five miles east from the church, both on the north side of Doveran."

The Gordons of Beldorney owned Succoth , complete with the farms of Greenloan and Belcherrie,  prior to the birth of Mary Bain (c. 1770). In 1776 Charles Edward Gordon, eleventh and last Laird of Beldorney, sold the lands and castle of Beldorney, with Belcherrie and Soccoch to Thomas Buchan of Auchmacoy ("A Glass Farmer's Diary"), who in 1792 sold them to Sir Wm. Grant, Master of the Rolls.

According to this website on the Cabrach http://www.threestones.co.uk/books/feerings/chapter2.html

"Soccoch and Belcherrie.-These two farms are between the Lesmurdie estate and the boundary between the Lower Cabrach and Glass. They belong, with Greenloan, which is included in Soccoch, to Mr Grant of Beldorney, in Glass. They both came to the Grants in 1792, when "Wm. Grant, Counsellor at Law, London, was seised, Jan. 20th, 1792, in third part of Belcherrie, comp. Succoth, par. Mortlich, now Cabrach, &c". (Register of the Great Seal, Feb. 3rd, 1792.)"


Now that I think I have found where Mary Bain may  have been born - Succoth, Strathdeveron area, Aberdeenshire - there seems to be no record of her birth. There were Bain families in this area of The Cabrach from at least the 1740's, in places named Aldivalloch , Ordieton, Powneed, Whitehillock, but there is no mention of Mary Bain born c 1770, at least not in The Cabrach registers - maybe I need to check the Glass registers?

I am just puzzling why a girl from The lower Cabrach would be married to Peter Stewart, a hand loom weaver from Kinclaven, Perthshire - and why their children were born at Strelitz, Cargill parish. I am wondering if there may be a military connection of some sort?


DUFFUS of Edinburgh, Scotland/Murray/Coulter/Anderson/Cauvin/McGillivray/Carstairs
FALLEN, /Dunbartonshire & Partick /Cherry/Main/Gallacher
SCOTT of Gladsmuir/Pencaitland East Lothian
STEVEN of  Caithness, Edinburgh, Scotland/Campbell/Calder/McManus/Waugh/Hoy/Cadzian
McKENZIE of Glenisla, Forfarshire/Farquharson/Robertson/Jack/McNicol/Tosh

Offline DonM

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Re: Succoth or Sucoll, The Cabrach, Aberdeenshire
« Reply #7 on: Monday 14 September 15 17:32 BST (UK) »
I may have found her.

Don






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Offline AncesStory

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Re: Succoth or Sucoll, The Cabrach, Aberdeenshire
« Reply #8 on: Monday 14 September 15 20:18 BST (UK) »
I may have found her.

Don

VERY  thankful for your research DonM - now I have a Bain "family"  and place to research! I missed this completely so glad you found this.
AncesStory
DUFFUS of Edinburgh, Scotland/Murray/Coulter/Anderson/Cauvin/McGillivray/Carstairs
FALLEN, /Dunbartonshire & Partick /Cherry/Main/Gallacher
SCOTT of Gladsmuir/Pencaitland East Lothian
STEVEN of  Caithness, Edinburgh, Scotland/Campbell/Calder/McManus/Waugh/Hoy/Cadzian
McKENZIE of Glenisla, Forfarshire/Farquharson/Robertson/Jack/McNicol/Tosh