Patrick Lennon, farmer of County Down. But where...?

[TheNineteenth]

It's reasonably well known that Beatle John Lennon's ancestry came from County Down. His great grandfather, James Lennon was born there (according to the 1871 census) in 1829 and his father, according to his marriage cert, was a Patrick Lennon, farmer.

Interestingly, the parents of James' wife were also from County Down, but whilst they and James moved to Liverpool, it seems that Patrick never did.

My question is whether it's possible to find whereabouts in County Down Patrick farmed. I can only find one "Lenahan" on the online tithes (but they seem very lacking indeed containing just a few thousand names from Down) but on the later Griffiths there are four Patrick Lennons scattered around the county. I think James' birth comes too early for it to be recorded in a church baptism book, but is there anything else that can be done to define where James and Patrick lived?

[TheNineteenth]

For some context...

In 1849, James Lennon married Jane McConville (b.1831 Ireland - detail from later census) in St. Anthony's Chapel, Scotland Road, Liverpool on the 29th April. Addresses given were Vauxhall Road and Saltney Street. Respective fathers were Patrick Lennon, farmer and James McConville, an engineer.

James McConville had moved to Liverpool with his wife Bridget and children Jane, John and Richard in between 1840 and 1849. It was found in a later census that Bridget, at least, was also from Co. Down like her son in law, James.

In 1851, James Lennon and his wife Jane were living in Saltney Street, Princes Place, Liverpool with daughter Elizabeth who had been born in 1850. Irish naming rules would suggest that this would be the name of a mother or grandmother, but she obviously wasn't named after Jane or Bridget. Could Elizabeth thus be the name of James' mother? Possibly...but they never used 'Patrick' or 'Bridget' as names for their children...

Also on the same street were Jane's parents, James McConville (b.1810 Ireland) and Bridget McConville (b.1811 Ireland) and Jane's brothers John McConville (b.1834 Ireland) and Richard McConville (b.1840 Ireland).

James McConville seemingly died between 1851-61.

In 1861 James Lennon and Jane were living at 3, Paget Street, Liverpool along with Jane's widowed mother Bridget McConville(54). James(30) was a warehouseman/cooper. At that time they had five children; Elizabeth(10), James(#2)(, John[Jack](6), William George(3) and Richard Francis(17days).

Two more children were born to the family. In 1865 Joseph Lennon was born and in 1867 Edward Lennon. Their mother Jane Lennon nee McConville died in 1869 aged 36.

By 1871 James Lennon, sons James(#2), John[Jack], Richard, Joseph, Edward and mother-in-law Bridget McConville were living at 31 Eldon Place, Liverpool.

According to this 1871 census, James Lennon and Bridget McConville were born in County Down, Ireland.

[kingskerswell]

Hi,
    There are various Patrick Lennons on the Ros Davies site. See http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/L/LenLey.htm

Regards

[TheNineteenth]

Thanks. It's a fantastic site and I had a look around it earlier, but nothing obvious jumped out and a lot of the Patricks were a little later in time than I'd need them to be...

[gaffy]

Common names for County Down, so don't read too much into this.  A Jane McConville was baptised in Newry RC parish on 8 May 1831, parents given as James & Bridget McConville (bottom of right page):

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633286#page/71/mode/1up

Also a John McConville was baptised in Newry RC parish on 27 October 1833, parents given as James McConville and Bridget Torley (halfway down left page):

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633286#page/106/mode/1up

So just to note the possibility of location in south County Down.

[BallyaltikilliganG]

hi i went quickly to  Griffiths valuation and just taking these three results for their civil parish location moved back 30 + years see below
Lennon  Patrick  Drummiller  Aghaderg  Down dated 1863
Lennon  Patrick  Corbally  Down  Down dated 1863
Lennon  Patrick  Village of Magheralin,Ballymakeonan  Magheralin  Down 1864

I looked up the tithes applotment for all three parishes
Aghaderg civil parish
http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/down/tithe-applotment-books/aghaderg-parish.php#.VgWrKkvU4YU
Lennon, A.   Townland: Drumsallagh Year: 1828
Lennon, Bern.   Townland: Drummiller Year: 1828
Lennon, Bernd.   Townland: Drummiller Year: 1828
Lennon, Bernd.   Townland: Lisnagade Year: 1828
Lennon, Edward   Townland: Lisnagade Year: 1828
Lennon, James   Townland: Drumsallagh Year: 1828
Lennon, Michael   Townland: Drummiller Year: 1828
Lennon, Patrick   Townland: Drummiller Year: 1828
Lennon, Richard   Townland: Lisnagade Year: 1828
Lennon, Widow Townland: Drummiller Year: 1828
Lennon, Widow Townland: Lisnagade Year: 1828
Down civil parish
http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/down/tithe-applotment-books/down-parish.php#.VgWssUvU4YU
Lennon, Edward   Townland: Magheralegin Year: 1833
Lennon, John   Townland: Woodgrange Year: 1833
Lennon, Joseph   Townland: Corbally Year: 1833
Lennon, Mary   Townland: Corbally Year: 1833
Lennon, Nichs.   Townland: Corbally Year: 1833
Lennon, Peter   Townland: Ballystrew Year: 1833
Lennon, Thomas   Townland: Hollymount Year: 1833
Lennon, Wm.   Townland: Ballymote Year: 1833
Lennon, Wm.   Townland: Ballystrew Year: 1833
Lenon, Jno.   Townland: Hollymount Year: 1833
Lenon, Peter   Townland: Quartercormick Year: 1833
Lenon, Thos.   Townland: Hollymount Year: 1833
Magheralin civil parish
http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/down/tithe-applotment-books/magheralin-parish.php#.VgWtokvU4YU
no Lennon found

So one could search every Tab for every civil parish and many may be missing.
However the one found Patrick living in 1828 in Drummiller in Aghaderg
Church records exist see http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/CHURCHES/A-I.htm#Aghaderg

AGHADERG, CO. DOWN
C.I. Aghaderg (Dromore diocese)
Baptisms,1814-70; marriages, 1814-49; burials, 1814-
1980; vestry minutes, 1747-1841. MIC583/9; CR1/47
C.I. Scarva (Dromore diocese)
[Earliest registers destroyed in Dublin]
Baptisms, 1877-; marriages, 1851-; burials, 1850-;
vestry minutes, 1850-. In local custody
P. Glascar
Baptisms, 1780-1844 and 1885-1931; marriages, 1781-
98 and 1822-32, with indexes, and 1845-1903;
communicants’ roll, 1890-1940.
Session minutes, 1760-1818.
MIC1P/63
In Presbyterian Historical
Society
P. Loughbrickland
Baptisms, 1842-1903; marriages, 1842-89; committee
minutes, 1842-1905, with accounts up to 1912; stipend
payers’ book, 1862-83; communicants’ roll, 1882-91. MIC1P/181
P. Scarva
Baptisms, 1807-1964; marriages, 1814-1936; lists of
new communicants, 1858-94 and 1924-7;
communicants’ roll, 1927-9 MIC1P/182; CR3/53
Guide to Church Records
58
Public Record Office of Northern Ireland
Crown Copyright 2010
Ref. No.
R.C. Aghaderg (Dromore diocese)
Baptisms, 1816-76; marriages, 1816-76; burials, 1838-
75.
MIC1D/29

My quick assimilation of that means the births from say 1816 exist with a chance of earlier ones.

 Many family quests don’t have this collection of records available.  So back to yourselves BUT I would be thinking someone has done John Lennon family history in greater detail than you have found so far but who and where is it. examples might be
SOG  Society of genealogists, unchecked
The Guild of One Name studies Hasn’t Lennon registered. http://www.nifhs.org/results.htm has lennon entries but not an obvious connection

Another source might be in indexs that list the  father of children eg http://www.ancestryireland.com however that’s too early or too late for identifying where James was born
JAMES   LENNON   1816   father PATRICK   Down
PATRICK   LENNON   1857   father PATRICK   Down
THOMAS   LENNON   1855   father PATRICK   Down
JAMES   LENNON   1857   father PATRICK   Down
JANE   LENNON   1858   father PATRICK   Down   
EDWARD   LENNON   1858   father PATRICK   Down   
JAMES   LENNON   1858   father PATRICK   Down
PATRICK   LENNON   1859   father PATRICK   Down
HANNAH   LENNON   1861   father PATRICK   Down

I haven’t searched familysearch.org and after that I would be back to church records, but first seeing Ros davies versions rather than PRONI as she often lists other groups that have copies  eg NIFHS and Familysearch etc  Good luck anyway
BallyaltikilliganG

[michelaccio]

Hi,
I found the marriage of James McConville and Bridget Torley ... they married on 4 May 1830 in Newry RC Parish (Diocese of Dromore). Witnesses were Robert & Bridget Torley.

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633287#page/92/mode/1up

Does anyone have news on the brothers of Jane McConville? After the Census of 1851 I found nothing on John & Richard...
More generally, any update on Lennon & McConville is pleasing...

Gianni Nicolini

[Speedwell]

I was fascinated by your comment (thanks for the link you provided, by the way).
What really fascinated me was that I know of another Newry marriage between a McConville and a Torley.

http://www.mcconvilles.co.uk/McConville-Ancestry/d1.html#g1

1. James McConville was born circa 1800 and died before 1859.
James married Cicely Torley. Cicely was born in 1799, died on 13 Jul 1874 in Altrincham, Cheshire, aged 75, and was buried on 16 Jul 1874 in Bowdon Churchyard.

Perhaps you will find more relatives in the generations shown on this site.

Regards
Shell (Speedwell)

[Harpo13]

Any further progress on this, loads of lennons furter south from newry in north Louth