Jones in Llanfair Dyffryn Clwyd - help request

[pimpernel]

Hello everyone, I wonder if anyone can help to identify the wife of my Robert Jones of Llanfair.

Here's what I have: In the 1881 census (Piece:5517 Folio: 76 Page Number:15) my GG grandfather Robert Williams heads a household in Gottaea, Minera, with his wife Hannah (37, born Llanfair), four children, brother-in-law Robert Jones (25) and sister-in-law Mary Jones (23). Both these latter are unmarried and listed as born in Llanfair, Denbighshire.

I've a marriage for Robert Williams and Hannah Jones of Minera, 31st May 1862, in Wrexham Registry Office, identifying Hannah's father as Robert Jones, Engineer.

In 1871 (4a schedule number:371 Piece:5654 Folio:48 Page Number:64) I have a widowed 56 year old Robert with children Robert (14) and Mary (12) in Brymbo, all born in Llanfair, profession: sawyer. Hannah was married by this time of course.

So, three Jones children and their father identified, all from Llanfair, but who was their mother? I've not found any sign of the family in the 1851 or 1861 census, nor have I found any birth records for the children in Llanfair. Can anyone help?

[osprey]

well, I have this suggestion from 1851
Graigadwynwynt, Nantclwyd HO107/2504 folio 362 pg 7
Robert Jones head mar 38 circular sawyer
Mary wife 33 b. Mold, Flintshire
Thomas son 11 b. Efenechtyd, Denbighshire
Hannah dau 8
Elizabeth dau 3
Harriet dau 2
all born Llanelidan, Denbighshire except where noted

From Llanfair Nant Clwyd baptisms, father Robert Jones, labourer, & Mary
Thomas bp 29 Dec 1829, abode Melin Newydd
Hannah bp 2 Oct 1842, Graigadwywynt
Harriet bp 28 Jan 1849, Graigadwywynt
Robert bp 16 Aug 1857, Graigadwywynt

 

[pimpernel]

Oh excellent, that has to be them, thank you Osprey! I wonder why these didn't come up in web searches on Ancestry and the LDS site. Do you have a link for an online source for the baptisms?

[osprey]

via FamilySearch
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCP5-G3F

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCP5-Y7J

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCP5-YJ3

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCP5-T1M

couple of possible marriages as well, but a birth cert needed for one of the children to be sure of the mother's maiden name. Ordering via the local office would be a good idea in order to check the details. You can check the birth regs at North Wales Bmd
http://www.northwalesbmd.org.uk/births.php

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCP5-YTY

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCP5-YYC

[pimpernel]

Many thanks Osprey!

It's a little awkward that of the children mentioned in the 1871 and 1881 households only Hannah is old enough for the 1851 census, and she's not shown with the family, but Robert's listing as a sawyer has to be the same man. His youngest children Robert and Mary were both born in the 1850's, so quite a gap from those listed in the '51 census, I wonder if he married twice then.

If I could trace the family in the 1861 census all this would be clarified, but I know sections are missing for this region - I've other family in Froncysyllte, which has no 1861 returns at all.

[osprey]

if he married twice, it was to a Mary both times as Robert's baptism shows his mother as Mary. I haven't found a baptism for the child Mary or Elizabeth yet. There's also a daughter Alice bp 27 Aug 1854. The problem with the missing 1861 is that there could be other children who would old enough to be working elsewhere by 1871, but no others that I could see between 1851 & 1861. There's a possible for the Harriet born 1849 working as a servant in the Rectory of Efenechtyd in 1871.