Charles Blackson/Blacksell Marriage Doc Queries

[DavidG02]

I finally got around to ordering this and it has left me more confused.

Firstly Vic BDM had the entry down as searchable for 1871 when it was 1855. ( and document states 1855)

Secondly the 1st witness is a Richard Blackson - who if family tales and records are correct would have been 90 when witnessed- yet it is a strong clear signature.

Thirdly the 2nd witness was a Mary Ann Munn. Nothing odd about that - until I looked at my own records and my Munn family to find Mary Ann would have been 14 in 1855. I don't find it odd that a Munn would have witnessed this as it was in the Wannon district of Vic which would have been sparsely populated. That the Blacksell/Blackson family married in 35 years later is neither here nor there.

Can Mary Ann be a witness at 14?

Why the lag in search date?

The Blacksell/Blackson name confusion is best left for another thread...it is Blacksell to later generations and even Charles and Richard assume this name themselves at least 1 year earlier in newspaper reports

Hope someone can clear this up 

[judb]

hi DavidG02

Not quite sure what the background is for this family.  Do you have another thread for them as there is very little information here?

Do you mean that the Victorian BMD index had the date wrong compared to the actual certificate?  If so then it may be worth contacting them to rectify this.  if you got it from the index on Ancestry then it´s not unusual for them to be incorrect.

Hopefully we can help you some more.

Judith

[DavidG02]

hi DavidG02

Not quite sure what the background is for this family.  Do you have another thread for them as there is very little information here?

Do you mean that the Victorian BMD index had the date wrong compared to the actual certificate?  If so then it may be worth contacting them to rectify this.  if you got it from the index on Ancestry then it´s not unusual for them to be incorrect.

Hopefully we can help you some more.

Judith

Thank you Judith 

I could fill a server with all the conflicting info on the Blacksell/Blackson confusion 

My 2 queries ( bolded) were : Why would the Vic BDM have an 1855 marriage listed as an 1871 search term? ie I cannot find the 1855 marriage using '' search between 1854 and 1856''

At least a popular Family Past Finding website has the 1855 correct date but it also lists the 1871 entry using the same marriage number.

The second query is can a 14 yr old be a witness to a marriage? If they cant I have to find another Mary Ann Munn   as I have a Mary Ann born 1841. 

These 2 queries were the reason for so little info

[Raylen]

Not sure I can explain why, but it seems there was some additional
information added in 1871.

I did a search and entered the registration number 2498
and the year range 1855 to 1871 and got 2 results.

From my records it shows
Marriage
Charles BLACKSON to Jane Muirhead
1855 Reg No 2498x1871

Charles BLACKSON  (born Sydney) to Jane Muirhead (born Edinburgh)
1871 Reg No 2498

Probably doesn't explain it but somebody else may help more.

Raylen

Just to add - when I did a search for Blackson 1855-1856 I got 0 results
but when I did a search for Muirhead 1855-1856 I got 1 result.  A little confusing 

[DavidG02]

Thank you Raylen. At least I'm not going senile..yet 

[andycand]

Hi

Could it be that the marriage was not registered with the authorities until 1871? 

Andy

[judb]

Someone else with more knowledge may come in but it seems likely that Rayle´s explanation is correct and that here was some amendment in 1871.  Ancestry´s Australian Death Index gives both dates, with the reg number shown as 2498x1871

Andy´s comment is a possible

Judith

[DavidG02]

For Judith and others who would like to chase this around. I will keep it here instead of starting a fresh thread - but I will leave the option open 

I have always thought the name of my GGGG-Grandfather was Richard Blacksell. This is the name on the records of succeeding generations and so when I refer to him and family I will do so as Blacksell- with the understanding it could be Blackson or Blacksall etc.

According to SA Biographical information 1988-  Richard was born 1764 and died in Binnum SA in 1865.

I have no marriage information for Richard but I do have a spouse Esther Robinson ( Robertson on Charles marriage cert) and had 1 child Charles in 1814. ( SA Bio)

There was also a bio on Charles stating he was born 1814 Sydney and died in 1893 in Naracoorte SA. He married (bio) Elizabeth Jane/Anne Muirhead nee Moultrie born Edinburgh Scotland. Using this I searched the fiche and could only find a marriage of Blackson to Jane Muirhead. The marriage certificate I have purchased has Charles Blackson marrying Jane Muirhead in April 1855 in Wannon district  and supports most of the info in the bio.

So there was conflict between Blackson and Blacksell.

Using Trove I found an advert for a War fund and found a listing of donors - including Richard Blacksell, Charles and also a John Blacksell??? They worked on the property in Binnum of the Jones brothers- Derwas and Henry  . Searching early Pastoral Pioneers I came across HE Jones who , it was stated, used mostly Ticket of Leave men ( apart from 1) on his property.

I also found a Charles Blacksell as a jockey/rider in Tasmania as well as a John Blacksell convict. Looking at Johns records it stated he was born 1817 in Lincoln. Same time frame as Charles. hmm.
A Charles Blacksell left Tasmania in 1849 for Adelaide ( Trove) John Blacksell granted ToL in Feb 1854 (Trove) and in December a John Blacksell is working on the Jones property. 

Looking for a Richard Blacksell/Blackson in Tasmania produced not much apart from a ToL Richard Blackston leaving for San Francisco in 1850. (Trove) ( some web links suggest Blackston and Blacksell are the same man - but I am not convinced)

I have seen many other researchers also chase this family without success. One has said he has a BC of George Ernest Blacksell  born 1882 which states parents Charles and Janes ages as 51 and 48 , making Charles born 1830/31.

So if Charles was born free what would he be doing on a property full of ToL men? Or is the author of the Pastoral article taking poetic license?

Where or who is Esther Robertson?

How did Richard arrive in Australia - and under what name?

 I understand with the passing of time and a need to hide a shady past may have helped records being fudged but I am ever hopeful. This is probably my strongest reason to do a DNA test to see who I can match with from this line or at least have some idea of possible name conections.

Sorry if this confuses more than clarifies but I am open to questions- I may not have the answers though 

Any extra information I can post as required but I didn't want to fill this with too much 

[DavidG02]

Hi

Could it be that the marriage was not registered with the authorities until 1871? 

Andy

The Cert I have looks to be an Official Victorian one.

''The colony of Victoria'' Original Certificate

Schedule D -22 Vict no 70

and married in Parsonage by ?? hard to read but a Trove search suggests T. Cusack Russell , and apart from a discussion about ''Protestant Episcopalians '' I wouldn't think he was lax in his work in passing on information to the authorities. ( I hope)