Using DNA to find Scottish GR-GR-Grandfather in Renfrewshire

[ladyk]

Apologies to you LadyK, more than 2yrs on...
I do remember sending the death cert for Caroline Reid but, it never occurred to me  at the time that you would need clarification re the note in the margin.

We never did locate Caroline at 1871, nor did we locate her father's death cert.

Hello Anne! Sorry, been away from the computer for a few days. Actually, I didn't notice the note in the margin until recently. I think I had glanced at it and thought it referred to the entry above Caroline. No, still no Caroline in 1871, nor a death for her father John, sadly. I'm not giving up though! 

[ladyk]

When I looked back at the old thread re Caroline Reid, I recall that neither myself or Monica could find very much on her mother Caroline Matilda Ferguson.
Both of us assumed that she could be Irish.
I'm certain that her birth was not on Family Search at 2013 but it's there now!

Caroline Matilda Ferguson b 17 Oct 1820 Old Cumnock
Parents Alexander Ferguson and Agnes McKnight.

Her sister Jane Ferguson b 29 Dec 1824.
Married Thomas Ritchie before 1851

The only census I can find
1851:Daleagles, New Cumnock

Thomas Ritchie   26b Leadhills, Lanark. Coal Miner
Jane Ritchie   26 b wife B Old Cumnock
Agnes Fergurson   55 Mother in Law b Straiton,Ayrshire

Anne, you must have found Caroline's mother's bd earlier, because I have it and her parents' names on my tree! But I did not have the info about Jane's marriage and husband. I have looked for more on Caroline Matilda's parents too, but haven't found anything. You could be right that her mother (McKnight) might be Irish.

[ladyk]

Just a thought,

Have you tried looking for R(ie)d rather than Reid.

Some names with "i" & "e" seem to get turned round at times e.g. Neil/Niel

Annie

ADDED......

For some unknown reason which Monica will verify, there are many missing census records/people in 1871........a mystery 

I have not, but that is a thought. I have tried Reed and Read.

[ladyk]

I notice that you say John was born in the Abbey Poorhouse Neilston but his birth seems to be recorded in Abbey, Paisley reg district. The Abbey Poorhouse was located in Paisley ( in Craw Road) and there appear to be records extant for it (copies held at Paisley Library according to the Internet). There appear to be 1881 census lists for the poorhouse but can't see any for 1871. Perhaps Caroline and William were still in the poorhouse in 1871 and the records simply aren't available.
Isobel

Hmm, okay, I wonder why I thought Neilston? I did find that records are held at Paisley Library and are not available online. Oh, I have first son William as being born Neilston, Renfrew, Scotland on 22 June 1870. (that is from ancestry .com), so maybe that's why I thought John was born there. I do see now that John was born in Paisley in 1872. So where in Neilston would William have been born? Was there a poorhouse or such facility there, or perhaps she gave birth in someone's home.

[ladyk]

LadyK, can you confirm that Caroline was unable to write her name on John's birth cert of 1872?

I have obtained the birth cert for William Reid born 22 Jun 1870 in Neilston.( illegitimate)
 Registered by Mother: Caroline Reid ( Bleacher).
Signed X her mark.
Child was born at Broadlea Banks, Neilston

I have searched 1871 census for Broadlea Banks and found all occupants.
There is no one resembling Caroline or her son at any property in this street.

I just checked, and there was no column or place on the birth record for Caroline to sign or make her mark. What does ( Bleacher) mean on the birth cert? And would Broadlea Banks be the street in Neilston? Perhaps the father's family lived there?

[ladyk]

Managed to find census records for the Abbey Poorhouse for 1871 and don't see any sign of Caroline, so another dead end I'm afraid.
Isobel

Oh, DARN! Well thank-you so much for looking! At least I can rule out that she was living at Abbey Poorhouse in 1871. Since her first child (1870) was not born there, I'm not surprised that she wasn't there. She probably ended up there somehow to give birth to the second son (1872). She was definitely at # 9 Collier Street in Johnstone, Paisley Abbey, Renf. in 1861. She turns up in Neilston to have her son in 1870. I believe they are only a few miles apart? Then she has John in 1872 in Paisley and dies in 1881 in Neilston.

One funny thing that turned up when I was just playing around with my dna matches. I don't think this is the "answer" I'm searching for, but for a few moments it sure seemed possible! I did a mirror tree with the one person who is a dna match to both me and to my cousin's daughter (who is on my Dad's side/Reid side of the family). The name Bird came up in common. Just for giggles, I plugged in a search for a Bird male born about Caroline's birth year in the Paisley area. One popped up, a man named Charles Micheal Bird, born 1848 (same as Caroline) in Paisley. What caught my eye was that his occupation was listed as "clerk at prison". For a moment I thought well maybe they  were referring to the poorhouse, as sometimes the same building would house prisoners, etc. Then I saw that this Charles's father was Prison Governor at Paisley prison, and realized they actually did mean the prison, so I dropped that theory for the present. I suppose Caroline could have been in the Paisley prison, who knows. But that is the kind of info I'll be looking for to identify John Reid's father. A long shot, but fun to try!

[carolineasb]

I can't add anything at the moment to this post BUT it is very spooky reading it as Caroline Reid was my maiden name and I see in your last post that your Caroline was living in Colllier Street, Johnstone, which I also did when I was first married over 100 years later!  I also have connections to Neilston as I had Dunlop family living there and my Reid Grandfather ended up being the Headteacher of the Primary there!

[still_looking]

If there is a record of her poor law application then it may reflect which parishes were involved when it came to paying for her care. They usually refer to changes in chargeability. That may help.

S_L

[anne_p]

LadyK,
The Poor Law Records are housed at The Heritage Centre at Paisley Central Library.
Library info states that these records are normally filed by surname ( last name)

I presume that the index to files will be digitised ?
It could be worth dropping  them an email to check if there is an application existing for Caroline or her sons.

heritage@renfrewshire.gov.uk

If the file exists, I will arrange a trip to Paisley on your behalf and transcribe it.

EDIT:
Staff at library will let me know later today if any file exist