Using DNA to find Scottish GR-GR-Grandfather in Renfrewshire

[MonicaL]

ladyk, I love always the passion and energy - vital as we know for these searches 

If you at this point, I would go next to checking whether Catherine Reid ever applied for poor relief. Given the circumstances, I would think it is likely 

You need to check who now maintains these records today. From here, www.myainfolk.com/Resources_files/Records_of_the_Scottish_Poor.pdf - two records show for Abbey on page 36:

Abbey Parochial Board: Registers of Poor 1858-1893 (Paisley Central Library refs. B57/8/1 & B57/8/3-8)
Abbey Parochial Board: Record of Applications 1859-1895 (Paisley Central Library refs. B57/12/1-40)

If you are lucky enough to find poor relief applications, it may take you closer to the actual names of reputed fathers for Catherine Reid's children.

Monica 
                   

[loobylooayr]

Hi Ladyk,

First of all I wish you good luck with your quest .

I thought I would try and help by using the records available to try and work out where Caroline was in 1871. You mention the death of her father John Reid in 1871 and the location of Armadale, West Lothian. I have searched on Scotlands People and can find no death for a John Reid in West Lothian between the years of 1870 - 1871  What evidence do you have please that John Reid died there ?
You also mention Caroline having a son William Reid in 1870 at Neilston. Do you know what happened to this boy? Did he die? Or should he be on the 1871 Census too?

Looby

[ladyk]

Looby, thank-you for your interest in my needle-in-a-haystack endeavor! Most of the information that I have on Caroline Reid and her family came from this forum. About 2 yrs ago, two lovely ladies in Scotland helped me to find her and unravel her sad story. I looked back in those messages to find out where I got the info about Caroline's father John Reid's death. Apparently they found the death of John's wife, Hannah Geddes Reid, in Armadale in 1870 and her husband was listed as living. Then they were unable to locate John Reid in the 1871 census living with any of his children, so they assumed that he probably died 1870 or 1871. Armadale was the best guess, simply because his wife had died there, but if he then lived with one of his children, they were, by then, spread out in different places, such as Ayrshire and Lanarkshire. In other words, I don't have a certain death date for John Reid, Caroline's father. As for her son William, there is only one record of him that I know of and that is the birth record. He probably was either adopted out or he died young. I have searched for him as an adult and there are 2 William Reids born in 1870 in Neilston, but no way to know if either of them is Caroline's child. If only I could place Caroline in the 1871 census, it would help me immensly in pinning down her child's (or children's) father. I only have her in the 1861 census in Johnstone, and then her death in 1881 in the boarding house in Neilston. I looked into searching via Poorhouse records as someone had suggested, but those records appear to exist in a library in Scotland and not, unfortunately, on the internet. She may well have been in the poorhouse that year, since her child was born there a year after that census. Then again, she could have been living with a sibling, her father, or even in the same location she was at in 1861. Let me know if any further info would be of help. There MUST be an 1871 census record for Caroline out there somewhere! 

[Ruskie]

If it is true that as you say, there were only 2 William Reids born in 1870 in Neilston, but no way to know if either of them is Caroline's child.

As there are only two, have you considered tracing both of these William's to see where they lead you? If you could find both of their births, marriages and/or deaths, and purchase certificates, it would be interesting to see if they give a father's name. Caroline should be named as the mother on one of them.

Not that it helps you in your quest to find John's father as he and William may have had different fathers. Presumably you have already purchased John's birth certificate and no father is named? Similar with his marriage and death certificates?

Added: I can't see an obvious Caroline Reid in the 1871 Scottish census - but some of the transcriptions leave a lot to be desired so she might be hiding. Have you checked the census on SP - I got only 7 results for Car* Reid with no dates or places specified. That's only one page to purchase.

[loobylooayr]

Hi again LadyK,

Unfortunately Caroline may just not be found on 1871. She could have been missed.
Even today certain sections of society may choose to opt out of Census (although I think it's against the law) or have a lifestyle that excludes them (homeless).
Caroline could be on the Census under a different name. Although she never married she could have been using a man's surname  . Looking at the date of John's birth, she could have been in a relationship at the time of the Census.

I think trying to find John Reid's death (to see who informant was) especially if he died before Caroline and tracing young William may be useful.

Your earlier thread was an interesting read

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=644369.0   

Looby

[ladyk]

Thanks Ruskie, I will work on tracing the possible Williams back and I see what you mean about the one page of "Car" Reids in the 1871 census. I will check those out as well. John's bc says "illegitimate" with no father named. His marriage certif. names Caroline and "John Reid", who was his grandfather. His death certif I have never been able to find. I believe he died of tuberculosis, so he may have been in a facility of some kind at his death. (He lived in Paterson, NJ at that time)

Looby, Caroline could have been using someone's name, I suppose, but when John was born in January of 1872 (9 mos after the census of 1871), she was named as Caroline Reid on his birth record. I will continue to try to locate her father's death record and will follow up on the few clues that I have on William. Yes, the initial thread on this family was truly wonderful, and I am grateful forever to those ladies for the information that I do have! If I cannot place Caroline in 1871, I will start the search for her partner assuming that she was in the Johnstone/Neilston region of Renfrewshire at that time, which is the most likely case. I wonder if there are any records from the mills that employed so much of the regional population? Caroline is listed as mill worker in the 1861 census. On John's birth record she is listed as "Pauper" and "formerly washerwoman".

One more thing: in the margin next to Caroline's death record is written "Clerical error," and then two words that I cannot make out. I'm now wondering if it could be a name she was using that belonged to the boyfriend? I wish I could decipher it, but the closest I can tell, it reads "col-fine Narjle". I could email the document to you if you think you can read it!

Katharine

[Ruskie]

Katherine, if you could post a snip of the indecipherable words, we might be able to help you.

Something else I thought which I suppose may have happened in Scotland as well as England - inmates in workhouses and other institutions were sometimes enumerated under intitals alone. A long slog to find a "CR" but that may be a reason that she can't be found. 

[ladyk]

Well, that's a thought. I can try looking for CR.... Here is the bit of the death record with the "clerical error":

[jennywren001]

Looks like a clerical error in column five to me - is there anything inserted or scored out in column five?
Jen