mary ann mcdonald(nee frazer) 1847-?

[brylio]

Looking for final resting place of Mary Ann McDonald (nee Frazer) born 12/9/1847 Binda NSW.Married John Robert McDonald 1/8/1866 Binda. NSW.
Mary conceived 16 children of which 5 did not survive childhood. Sometime after the birth of her last set of twins in 1887 she left the family and no record can be found of her.
Folklore says she moved in with either a Bray or another McDonald.
It is reported she died sometime between 1903-1920 but no record can be found at NSW bdm up till 1940 as well no record in Qld bdm. There are a few on anc giving her death date, but when checked out, all fall over.
There is a Mary Ann McDonald recorded in 1903 living in Binda, but this is her daughter in law.
Can any body help locate her. 

[cando]

So we have her parents' names 

Birth
5661/1847 V18475661 121C    
FRAZER Mary A
Father Alexander  Mother Margaret


Cando

[majm]

BINDA as per Grevilles PO Directory 1875
FRAZER, Alexander, Sawpit
FRAZER, Alexander, Sawpit (yes, two separate entries, perhaps two chaps by that name)
McDONALD, William, postmaster
McDONALD, W, jun, poundkeeper
McDONALD, Alexander, storekeeper
McDONALD, A E, mail contractor
McDONALD, J R, carrier 
McDONALD and WEBESTER, storekeepers

NSW ER 1878 YASS PLAINS
Robert FRAZER, residence, Wheeo
Alexander FRAZER, senior, residence, Sawyer’s Creek
Alexander FRAZER, junior, freehold, Sawyer’s Creek
John FRAZER, senior, Wheeo, freehold
John FRAZER, junior, residence, Native-dog Flat.

NSW ER 1903 WERRIWA, polling at Binda
ALL with surname MCDONALD
Alexander, senior, of Binda, no occupation
Amy Jane, of Binda, domestic duties
Ernest Alfred, of Diamond Creek, labourer
James Alexander, of Binda, publican
James Henry, of Diamond Creek, farmer
John Robert, senior, of Diamond Creek, farmer
Mary Ann, of Diamond Creek, domestic duties
Walter Sydney of Diamond Creek, labourer
William Leslie, of Diamond Creek, labourer

May I mention that it was NOT compulsory to enrol to vote.  You needed to be aged 21 years and over and you needed to be a British subject, either by birth or by naturalisation.     The entry for Mary Ann McDONALD of Diamond Creek, at her domestic duties, does not provide sufficient information to confirm or eliminate her as the wife of John Robert McDONALD, senior, the farmer of Diamond Creek.

There is no mention of the surname BRAY at that polling place on the 1903 ER.

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

NSW ER 1878 ARGYLE
MCDONALD   (NONE with the surname FRAZER)
Alexander, of Murrumburrah, freehold at Cottawolla
Alexander, of Middle Arm, freehold
Alexander of Reedy Creek, leasehold, Irishtown
Alexander of Binda, residence
Alexander of Cottawolld, freehold
Alexander, junior of Mummel, freehold
Alfred E,  of Binda, residence
Angus, of Glen Ranald, freehold
Angus, of Cottawalla, Freehold
Angus, of Grant’s Flats residence
Archibald, of Phil’s River, freehold
Charles of Tarlo, leasehold
Charles of Clifford Creek, residence
Daniel of Glendonell, freehold
David Charles O, of Tarlo, freehold
Donald, of Grant’s Flats, freehold
Donald of Mummel, leasehold at Pomeroy
Donald, of Clifford Creek, freehold
Donald of Glen Ranald, freehold
Donald of Bolong, residence
Donald, of Woodhouseless Creek, freehold
Donald, junior, of Glencoe, residence
Duncan, of Mummel, residence
John, of Dick’s Flat, freehold
John of Diamond Creek, freehold
John Ronald, of Green Flats freehold
John Neil, of Clifford Creek, residence
Ranald, of Grant’s Flats, freehold
Ranald of Cottawolla, freehold
Ranald, of Mummel, residence
Robert of Bolong, residence
William of Tarlo, freehold
William of Irishtown, freehold at Bolong
William, senior of Binda, freehold
William, junior of Binda, residence
Thomas, of Binda, leasehold
Donald, of Clifford’s Creek, residence
Alexander, of Paddy’s Land, freehold

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Sands 1920 Pastoral Directory GOULBURN PASTURES PROTECTION BOARD.
Duncan McDONALD, Mummell, 3 horses, 12 Cattle, 167 Sheep,  844 acres
Donald MacDonald, Goulburn, 14 horses, 218 Cattle, 1650 Sheep, 1410 acres
J N MacDONALD, Laggan, 5 HORSES, 22 CATTLE, 661 Sheep, 950 Acres
S J McDONALD, Mummell, 7 horses, 24 Cattle, 300 Sheep, 974 Acres

Sands 1920 Pastoral Directory YASS PASTURES PROTECTION BOARD.
NONE with the surname McDONALD or variations.

Do you have copy of the death cert for John Robert MCDONALD?  If so, what do you learn about the informant’s knowledge of the family….  Does the informant state that John Robert was already known to be a widower? Does the informant state the correct info about when and where and to whom John Robert married ….   Where was John Robert interred? 

Have you checked the Deceased Estates file held at NSW State Records office for a John Robert MCDONALD, grazier, died 14 Jan 1925?


Cheers,  JM

[brylio]

JM
Death certificate for John Robert only mentions his marriage to Mary Ann no mention if alive or deceased. The informant was his son and all information recorded is correct that I am aware of. John was buried Binda Cemetery. His will mentions he was married with no mention or any estate going to Mary Ann all his estate went to his daughter, a son and some grandchildren. John Robert never remarried and his death date is as you mentioned 14/1/1925.
The 1903 record of Mary Ann McDonald is her daughter in law, the wife of Ernest McDonald her son.

[majm]

Hi there,

.... The 1903 record of Mary Ann McDonald is her daughter in law, the wife of Ernest McDonald her son.

May I again mention that the 1903 Electoral Roll does NOT indicate the marital status of the electors, so it is not possible to establish if the Mary Ann McDONALD of Diamond Creek as per that NSW roll is married, much less if she is married to any person also on that roll.

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

NSW ER 1913 GOULBURN polling at Binda
ALL with surname MCDONALD …. Noting none as Mary
Alexander of Green Creek farmer
Alexander Frazer of Binda farmer
Amy Jane of Binda domestic duties
Donald of Green Creek labourer
Edward Stanley of Diamond Creek labourer
Elizabeth Emma of Diamond Creek domestic duties
Elizabeth Jane of Binda domestic duties
Ernest Alfred of Diamond Creek farmer
Ethel Susanah of Diamond Creek domestic duties
James Alexander of Binda farmer
James Henry of Binda labourer
Margaret Jane of Diamond Creek domestic duties
John Robert of Diamond Creek farmer
Margaret of Green Creek domestic duties
Naomi Theresa of Diamond Creek domestic duties
Walter Sidney of The Diamond labourer
William Leslie of Diamond Creek farmer

Cheers  JM

[majm]

Hi there,

At Ancestry there is a public tree which has a scanned image of an older style and format paper copy of a death registration for John Robert McDONALD. 

Here is my transcription of that document.

D55290
Surname of deceased      McDONALD.
Other names         John Robert.

Occupation         Grazier
Sex and Age         Male.  77 years.
Marital status                                  -

Date of death         14th January 1925
Place of death         District Hospital, Crookwell

Usual residence                       -
Place of birth         Binda, N.S.W.

Father – Surname      McDONALD
   Other names      William
Mother – Maiden Surname   BRAY
   Other names      Elizabeth

Place of marriage      Not known
Age at marriage         Not known
To whom married      Mary Ann Frazer
Children of marriage      John R 60 years;  Lucy E 53,  Amy G 47, 
                 Walter S 45,  Adeline M 41,  James A F 49,  Living.                                                                            3 males deceased.

Informant                  W S McDonald, son, “The Diamond” Crookwell

Cause of death                  (a) Senile Myocarditis.   1 year
By whom certified            W Arthur KERR, (Registered).

Particulars of burial or cremation   15 January 1925,                                                       
                                                                                Church of England cemetery, Binda.

Particulars of registration   J W MASTERS, District Registrar,
                                                                        20th January 1925,  no. #464

From the above we learn that the informant did not know when or where his parents had married, and that he also did not know the marital status for his Dad.   So, Walter did not know if his mum was still living, or if his parents were still formally married to each other.   With that information, it seems sensible to me, to turn to the marriage certificates of Walter and his siblings.  In particular  to those certificates for any NSW marriages celebrated after 1899 when the NSW Marriage Act was amended.   From 1899 the requirement became enforceable for the clergy to not just note in the church registers but also to inform NSW BDM via the civil registration process if either parent for either party were known to be deceased.   So, the clergy were required to note if the bride or the groom knew that either Mum or Dad were already deceased.   The surname McDONALD (or its usual variations) is one of the more popular surnames, so there may be a need to save up and wisely choose which NSW BDM marriage certs to 'chase' up.

PS, I wonder why Walter was the informant when he did not even know his Dad's usual residence ....     perhaps his other siblings did not know either.... 

ADD http://www.auspostalhistory.com/articles/78.php   Mentions THE DIAMOND, and the Branson family connection to that location, and a current local historian  .  I wonder if he may have contact with descendants of  Charles BRANSON who married in 1881.  Charles married Elizabeth Kate McDONALD and the marriage was registered in the Crookwell district.      Perhaps there's an opportunity to share some certificates ?

Cheers,  JM