What are these people doing in my ancestors' grave?

[Retriever]

Hi Rosie

I haven't noticed the cs* so cant comment on that.

I contacted the Tree owner on Ancestry and he tells me a relative visited the cemetery a few years back and took the photo of the grave. He also has the same reference as I do so presumably the error is with Lewisham.

The grave number I got from the back of the headstone is nothing like plot A713, which is what the other Tree owner and I both have. Surely they wouldn't use the same reference number in two different sections of the cemetery, especially when they are in such close proximity.

I will let you know how it all works out, although I don't think anything will be done.

Regards

[Pennines]

Retriever -- you may have to contact the cemetery direct.

I don't know - but I imagine Deceased on Line have simply obtained records from each cemetery. Maybe they've transcribed them from the registers - but if it's not a transcription error - then the grave/burial registers held by the cemetery need checking by that cemetery. (I think!)

[Retriever]

Hi Pennines.


I don't think I will bother as I know the facts. It is unlikely there are any other family members in the grave because I have no idea what Sarah Ann was doing dying in Deptford. The family were living in the Clerkenwell area so finding her and then Charles buried in Brockley was a lucky find.

The rest of the family are buried North London.

Regards

[Guy Etchells]

I am hoping someone can answer a question for me.

I was lucky enough to find my ancestors' grave at Ladywell and Brockley when I visited last year because there is a headstone. Deceased on Line now have the records for this cemetery on their site and when I checked the fact came up that there are three others in the grave although there is no mention of anyone else on the headstone.

My gggranny was buried there in 1883, then an Elric Hill in 1892 followed by my gggrandfather in 1895, and then Ann Caroline 1902 and Annie Emilie 1931, also Hill.

It seems rather odd to me as I had assumed that the headstone was erected following the burial of my gggrandfather. Would it have been taken up twice to bury two others with such a long gap in between?

Any comments?

The first thing to do is to check the burial plot register (sometimes called a grave register oe lair register).
That will tell you who bought the plot what class of plot it is and exactly who is buried in it.

It could be a what is often called a third class plot other cemeteries call this a public plot or common plot.
In many cemteries these third class plots allow for a gravestone to be erected in other cemetries no gravestone is allowed to give the appearance of a less crowded cemetry.

Where a gravestone is allowed further inscriptions would only be added with permission of the owner of the gravestone, which may be the family who erected the stone or it may be the cemetery depending on the terms of the cemetery.

The stone may have been erected after the first burial and re-inscribed after your gggrandfather's burial.

Cheers
Guy

[sandiep]

looking at the burial register scan it definitely says A713 for Sarah Ann Howard, elric hill, anne Emily ann caroline, and Charles  believe CS stands for catholic service

[Retriever]

Hi sandiep. Yes the burial registers give A713 for both the Hills and the Howards, although they are definitely in different sections of A-con. That is what has caused the confusion.

There are three separate segments on the cemetery map, all marked as A-con, the Howards are in one segment and the Hills in another.

Guy, this is a very crowded cemetery and all the headstones I looked at in the vicinity of my relatives seemed to be family graves. There is definitely no room on the headstone for any more inscriptions.

Regards

[josey]

Off topic I know - and perhaps most people know this - but I recently enquired about grandparents & great grandparents graves. The former was bought outright by an uncle who died 1975; the latter on a 100 yr lease [bizarrely called 'in perpetuity' - 100 years is not what my schoolgirl latin tells me perpetuity means] by a great uncle who died in 1949. However ownership of the graves can only be  transferred in the lifetime of the original purchaser - again rather bizarre. For the former I have been able to have my name put on a list of 'interested parties' as the headstone is to be renovated & in case at some stage ashes could be buried there; for the latter only direct descendants can do so & I am trying to contact them to do something as the lease expires in 2016.

Josey

[Guy Etchells]

Prior to 1977, when the law was changed by the Local Authorities Cemeteries Order 1977 (which came into effect 10 march 1977), people were granted burial rights in perpetuity the meaning of which was for ever.

The Local Authorities Cemeteries Order 1977 Local Authorities the right to reduce the time period of any grave space granted in perpetuity, or for a period exceeding 100 years from the date of the grant to 100 years and six months, unless the owner of the rights objected.
This odd time period comes from the fact that after 100 years the cemetery authority could serve a notice on the holder of the rights and he/she had six months to respond.
The “life” of a grave plot can now be as little as 30 years.

Cheers
Guy

[josey]

Thank you for the clarification & additional information Guy. My grandparents' 'bought outright' grave was in 1936 & the '100 yr lease' in 1926 - not 1916 as I first thought.

after 100 years the cemetery authority could serve a notice on the holder of the rights and he/she had six months to respond.

The law does not seem to recognise that the owner of the rights has often long been dead by the time any of the family realise that the rights can only be transferred in this owner's lifetime. Perhaps I am naive/uninformed & it is actually common practice for the owner of grave rights to transfer them in a will??