Poor Law application 1937 guidelines and terminology

[maggbill]

Have obtained a Glasgow Poor Law application of 1937 re my mother and her brother.  They are on the list of residents of the household, but interestingly they are listed as "Adopted".  Family has always understood that they were "fostered" unofficially by a lady who was a distant relative by marriage and in fact never officially adopted.  They had lived with her following the death of their mother in 1923. 

I am hoping that someone might have experience of the terminology used in those days.   I am aware that the official fostering/adopting system didn't come into "vogue" till about 1930 in Scotland, though I know very little of the system.

 It seems the form has been filled in by an official, not the person applying, so I am wondering why the term "adopted" was used. Was it used to describe any form of "adoption/fostering"?  Did they require proof of an "adoption"? Would there have been any advantage on stating they were "adopted" rather than unofficially fostered? 

 Which leads me onto my second question regarding the application form.  The "mother" was applying for relief presumably because the only breadwinner, her brother, had died the previous month and she found herself in financial strife.  However when they (she or the clerk) calculated the family income, they did not include the wages which the two "children" (by that stage 16 and 18 years old respectively) were earning in paid work  -  even though their names, ages, places of employment and weekly wages were listed on a later page!  Why would they not have included their wages in the family income?

Anyone have knowledge of official adoption records of the 1930's being in existence?  Any other advice or knowledge gladly accepted.

[Forfarian]

It's not a case of adoption 'coming into vogue' in the 1930s, because that is when a formal legal procedure for adoption was established. Before then, all adoptions were of necessity informal because there was no legal framework.

Therefore if they were 'adopted' before 1930-ish, it has to mean an informal adoption, unless the adoptive parents instigated formal adoption after 1930-ish of (a) child(ren) they had previously adopted informally.

I'm unsure about the term 'fostering' - whether it was introduced after adoption was formalised to enable fostering and adoption to be distinguished, and if so whether there is any legal definition of fostering. Informally, I think it generally implies that the fostered child might one day be returned to its biological family, which an adopted child cannot be.

Official adoption records do exist from the 1930s, but they are not available to see.  However there is an adoption certificate that can be viewed and which will tell you the names of the adoptive parents and the child's date of birth. It does not tell you the name(s) of the child's biological parent(s). I think you have to be the adopted child in order to see the adoption records including the original birth certificate with information about biological parents, and I don't know whether you can apply to see the adoption records of your own parent who is now deceased.

I don't know why the children's wages were not included in the report by the Inspector of Poor - you would expect them to be included. Could their adoptive mother have described them as lodgers or boarders rather than as members of the family in order to prevent their earnings being taken into account?

[maggbill]

Hi Forfarian,

Thanks very much for your input.   Yes, sorry about my flippant use of "coming into vogue"... I sort of knew about the 1930 timeframe being the start of the formal legal procedure... but couldn't quite get the terminology right lol!

In my post the use of the word "fostering" was actual my wording - cos I never did hear my mother stating that she and her brother had been "fostered", "adopted" or other.... It was just a case of "She brought us up"....  And I do know that the biological father did make an approach to the children as young teenagers for them to live with him, which my mother would never consider - her brother did for some time.  So, I was quite amazed to see the description "Adopted" used twice in the application.  I am quite doubtful that in fact there was ever any formal agreement made. 

I could have understood if the "mother" had described the two teenagers as "lodgers, boarders", in order to get assistance - but she didn't - and certainly the "official" who filled in most of the form seems to have been the one to describe them as adopted, stating twice that they were in employment - and yet, at least on paper, not taking it into financial consideration.  The "mother" was anyway denied assistance - as "No case - on A.B." was the decision.. I presume that "A.B." would have meant "Assistance Board or Bureau"?? 
Again thanks for your help forfarian.
Maggs

[Guy Etchells]

Pre 1926 look for Certificates of Guardianship
http://anguline.co.uk/cert/gc.jpg

Cheers
Guy

[arthurk]

Pre 1926 look for Certificates of Guardianship
http://anguline.co.uk/cert/gc.jpg

Does this apply in Scotland too (as per OP)?

[Guy Etchells]

Yes guardianship was more like the modern day fostering and did not involve parental rights as adoption does but rather the person was appointed to represent the child until the age of 25.
As a result there were records created.
Cheers
Guy

[Forfarian]

The "mother" was anyway denied assistance - as "No case - on A.B." was the decision.. I presume that "A.B." would have meant "Assistance Board or Bureau"?? 

I think it is more likely to mean that she was denied relief on the grounds that she was Able-Bodied and therefore should have gone and found work. As far as I am aware there was no assistance board or similar other than the parochial board. The parochial boards only gave relief if the applicant was 'disabled', which in their terminology meant unable to work, either because of physical or mental handicap or sometimes by pregnancy and lactation or because the applicant had several dependant children. If the applicant was not affected by any of these (s)he was able-bodied and not eligible for relief. Merely being unemployed was not sufficient.

[Forfarian]

Pre 1926 look for Certificates of Guardianship

Not sure that that applied in Scotland. There is no mention of such at
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/research/guides/adoption-records

Also I note that the form in the example supplied by Guy refers to an Archdeaconry and Diocese, so this example is clearly part of the activities of the Church of England and therefore not relevant to Scotland.

[Guy Etchells]

Pre 1926 look for Certificates of Guardianship

Not sure that that applied in Scotland. There is no mention of such at
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/research/guides/adoption-records

Also I note that the form in the example supplied by Guy refers to an Archdeaconry and Diocese, so this example is clearly part of the activities of the Church of England and therefore not relevant to Scotland.

Yes that specific example refers to England; but Certificates of Guardianship cover all of Britian and have done since medieval times, but hey don't worry, ignore my advice.
Guardianship is nothing new the British Guardianship laws were a development of Roman Law

Cheers
Guy