Mary Ann/William Fletcher.

[cinny22]

Hi Everyone, Could some one please help me sort out this "mess" in my family? I'm trying to establish the real identity of my G-GGrandmother, Mary Ann or Mary Jones nee Fletcher?

I have the marriage certificate of my G-G Grandparents. They were Edward and Mary Jones nee Fletcher?? They married in St.Edmond's Parish Church on the 03rd April 1858. This was in DUDLEY, County of Worcester. Edward was a Blacksmith, Bachelor while Mary was described as a Spinster......but I wonder?? On this certificate both have stated Fathers were deceased with no names! The witness at this marriage were, Edward Millman and Ann Jones.

The next time I "pick them up" is in the 1861 Census in Barrow in Furness. They have listed, one child William they say SON, aged 10, but I wonder, and a new baby called George who is 1 year.

The next we see William is in the 1881Census again for Barrow and he is with George his Brother? and family.

On all the Birth Certificates for Edward and Mary Ann's children, she states her maiden surname is Fletcher..............do you think this is correct??
I can't understand where William came from, was Mary married before?

I would dearly love to get the birth certificate of William also.

Hoping you kind people can help me sort this out once and for all!!!
Best wishes to all, Shirley.

[Kay99]

In 1861 Edward Jones is 24 and  wife Mary 30 (born Welllington, Shropshire)  so it does look very likely that the son William (born 1851 Wellington, Shropshire) was the child of Mary from a previous relationship.

I think the below is the William and George you refer to in 1881 with George's birth place listed as Harrow?   If the correct brothers it does confirm William surname at Fletcher.  The enumerator recorded his birthplace as Wellington, but afterwards someone has added Som!

George Jones  23 Labourer Iron Works Harrow
Phoebe Jones 25 Wife Sheffield, Yorkshire,
Annie E Jones 5    Sheffield,
Edward Jones 2 Harrow
Caroline Hurdel? Boarder 59       
Samuel Alfred    Hurdel? Boarder     19    
William Fletcher Boarder  29 Labourer Iron Works Wellington, Som

I can't see the birth of a William Fletcher registered in about the right time but there was a Male Fletcher birth registered in  March Qtr 1852 Wellington Sp 6a    700

However the only two Mary Fletcher's of about the right age and birthplace  that I can see in 1851 are still Fletcher's in the 1861 census

Sorry that this doesn't really help!   Kay

[Mr Gwynne Chadwick]

Hi,

A William was Christened on 22 May 1851 at Sutton Maddock by Mary FLETCHER, a Servant of Sutton.
However on the 1851 census, I see there is a 21 year old single Mary FLETCHER, born in Staffordshire, living with her parents in Higford near Sutton Maddock.
Perhaps William was her son but to be 'your' Mary, her birthplace would be wrong on later sources.

[cinny22]

Yes, this is what I find, nothing seems to  fit with her. She is supposed to have been born in Wellington, Shropshire around 1831. On both the 1861 and 1881 Census all say Wellington, so this I guess is true. I think it is also strange that BOTH fathers have been omitted from the Marriage certificate.....don't you? You also see on the 1881 Census William is still with his family?
Many thanks, Shirley.

[Kay99]

A William was Christened on 22 May 1851 at Sutton Maddock by Mary FLETCHER, a Servant of Sutton.
However on the 1851 census, I see there is a 21 year old single Mary FLETCHER, born in Staffordshire, living with her parents in Higford near Sutton Maddock.
Perhaps William was her son but to be 'your' Mary, her birthplace would be wrong on later sources.

I wouldn't discount this possible baptism that Mr GC found.   The names and age for William are correct, Mary was unmarried and if she was working in the Madeley area it could explain how she met Edward.   

However I think the Mary Fletcher living in Higford in 1851 with parents Benjamin and Mary was still living with her parents in 1861 in Stockton, Shropshire (listed as born Bellbrook Staffs) RG 9 Piece 1852 Folio 7 Page 3

Re the father's names not being mentioned on the marriage cert and just being listed as deceased- it's the first time I have seen this, but it might be down to the questions the registrar asked?? They also might have been illegimate but it does seem unlikely that both were:-\   Have you found Edward Jones premarriage?

Kay

[cinny22]

Many thanks for your thoughts, can't seem to get much satisfaction from the 1851 census. Have you seen the 1851 census, where there is a family of Fletchers including a Mary Ann wife of George with a child called William? I really thought this was our family, but it seems not. I actually got this marriage certificate and her maiden surname was Weston. As time went on, apparently George her husband was killed in a mining accident and this I thought was her exit and then marriage to Edward in Dudley taking William..........this all seems to fit, but I contacted this Weston families and they say absolutely not the case..............what do you think?
Now why do you think they went to Worcester to marry? This I think is another strange thing
No Kay99, I have not been able to find my right Edward pre marriage. I only have one clue from the marriage certificate and that was Ann Jones as a witness! Edward was a Blacksmith all his life.
Some times it all gets so very hard and overwhelming, thank God, there are people like you, we can all "bounce" things around with!
Many thanks again......best wishes, Shirley

[Kay99]

I would agree that the Mary Fletcher married to George Fletcher with son William age 1 in 1851 sadly isn't yours. In 1861 they are still together with further children

Looking at Edward Jones born about 1837 Madeley, Shropshire there are are a few  baptisms on Family Search that could fit but following them hasn't given any good results

The 1851 census I like best for Edward is below -living in Dudley with his uncle and aunt and training to be a blacksmith. It could explain why he was in Dudley when he married Mary.    The problem I have with it is his birth place is listed as Shrewsbury???  and at the moment I can't see the aunt and uncle

Edward Jones 50 Blacksmith Sharsbury??  Shropshire Could be Shawbury??
Mary Jones 53 Elsmore? Shropshire - Could be Ellesmere
Edward Jones Nephew 15 App Shrewsbury
HO107 Piece 2032  Folio 5  Page    2

Does drive you mad doesn't it, especially the surname Jones!!   And without a father's name on the marriage cert it is really guesswork

Kay

Edit -Just a thought - there is this Mary Fletcher living with her family at Preston, Wellington in 1841.
Benjamin Fletcher 40 Shropshire  Ag Lab
Marth Fletcher 40 Shropshire
Thomas Fletcher 15 Shropshire
Mary    Fletcher 10 Shropshire
Francis Higgins 70 Shropshire

This looks like her baptism https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQRK-ZHG     In 1851 Benjamin is listed as born in Kinnersley  and Martha was born in Munslow, Shropshire and they were living in Wellington without Mary.  Benjamin Fletcher died pre 1861 and there is a tree on Anc that suggests Martha married a John Ward.    At the moment I can't see Mary in 1851

[cinny22]

Yes, have already seen the 1851 census which Edward is Apprentice Blacksmith, it looks quite good, and Shrewsbury in not far from Madeley? But I think for sure our Edward would not have got his place of birth wrong, as when he marries, and Mary is pregnant in 1864 they return to Madeley I think to have their Edward born there as well. His son Edward was the only child born in Madeley. There were others born before and after this Edward and they did not make this journey again from Barrow. As far as I know. Just another thought too, perhaps there could be a baptism some where in Madeley as they were Catholics and I guess they would not have passed up this chance. And perhaps this will be where Edward Senior would also have been baptised, and we also have a clue of the infamous ANN JONES at his wedding
The Benjamin and Martha, I don't really think is our Mary, as the names are not in our family, and I really think that she would have passed Benjamin or Martha onto their children as names, don't you?
The names in our family of Jones is, John, Joseph, Mary, Rebecca, James, Thomas, George and Edward.
Frustrating isn't it.................I have had this problem from 1996! I just thought some fresh eyes may have helped.
Many thanks for your help and thoughts, Best wishes, Shirley.

[cinny22]

Everyone, have just stumbled across these Census for a Jones family, can I please have your thoughts?
Please look at 1851census for: Edward Ones..38 born abt 1813, Ironbridge, Shropshire
                                             Ann      Ones..34 Born abt 1817, Gloucestshire.
                                             Thomas Ones..17 Born abt 1834, Newcastle, Scotland.
                                             Edward           17 born abt  1834, Coal miner,  Nth Shropshire. Clearly not twins
there is also a Elizabeth, Martha and Jane.

They are also on the 1841 census,

But unfortunately Edward sen is still alive in 1861, when on the marriage certificate of his son Edward marries Mary Fletcher he says he is deceased! But on this same certificate, there is an Ann Jones as a witness!!!!! Also on this 1861 census, Edward jun is missing, and Edward sen if you look at the original census is born in Madeley!!!!
The other things is too, I don't know where Edward jun, suddenly became a "Blacksmith" there does not seem to be any thing showing in the census. Unless it was all achieved between the ten years........

What do you all think???