Parents of Alfred Bartholomew

[david standley]

Parents of Alfred Bartholomew

DoB 9/4/1877 at 4 Fleet Street, Bethnal Green according to birth cert.
Parents listed as William Bartholomew and Caroline Bartholomew nee Smith.

Caroline is straightforward. From her 1901 census entry and her baptism record she was born 10/10/1833, the daughter of Robert Smith and Sarah Bamken (? spelling). Living with her parents in 1841 census but both died before 1851 so living with brother Robert in 1851. Must have married between 1851 and birth of first child, Jane, by William Bartholomew in 1957. No trace of marriage record.
Have tried to think if she might have married someone else earlier and remarried William as a widow but have got nowhere.

Who is William. Various census gives dob 1823-28 and Whitechapel/Bethnal Green as place of birth. I have found no birth record to add to the no marriage record!

William living on his own in 1841 census [name mis-transcribed on Ancestry] in Bethnal Green.
Other Bartholomew families living in Bethnal Green in 1841 were:-
John and Susan (66 & 56) in Camden Gardens
William and Ann [65 & 60] in Durham Place East with 1 grand child
Alfred (William and Ann's son) and Mary Ann [ 31 & 30] with 2 children in Durham Street
Hannah (widow of Thomas) [50] in Broadway
Thomas, Eliza and Ann, Hannah's children in Temple Terrace
Josh and Elizabeth (60 & 55) and three adult sons in Hackney Road Crescent
Caroline (18) another mis-transcription in Sale St.
and the William I am searching (18) a weaver from Hart's Lane.

Does William fit into any of these families?
1. John and Susan because I can find no trace of any childrens baptisms for them and neither can I for William.
2. William and Ann. Simply on the grounds of a reappearance of the name Alfred
3. Hannah. On the grounds that children were away from home and that her late husband's father, Peter Bartholomew, owned property in the street where Caroline Smith was born [very tenuous].

Has anyone got any ideas?

David Standlley

[dawnsh]

Hi David

Welcome to Rootschat 

Going sideways, have you found baptisms for the children?

It doesn't explain why there is no marriage in the GRO index, but they might have married in a church whose records have not made their way into the index because they were too late to be included.

This is most probably a red herring but there is a 'foreign & overseas' (not non-conformist) entry on www.familysearch.org that could be worth following up.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FWDX-SVB

that child was born 25 November 1826

Dawn

[david standley]

Thanks for this, Dawn. Alfred and all his siblings are in the births index. I was wondering why there was nothing in the marriage index and parish records. Given the name, Bartholomew, might there be a Jewish connection. There is certainly no hint in the modern family. Do historic Jewish records exist somewhere?
I dont think that the overseas line works.
David

[jomcd967]

Hi David,
What was father Williams occupation given as?
Jo 

[david standley]

Hello Jo

The William whose parents I am trying to find was a weaver - presumably one of the many Bethnal Green silk weavers. I cannot find anything about his father. There was a William living in Bethnal Green in 1841 [aged 65] who was a carpet weaver.

David

[ciderdrinker]

Hello David
I've had a look at St Matthews Bethnal Green christenings for the period and there seem to be two couples who are silk weavers having children there both resident in Church St.
John married Elizabeth Williams 18.2.1817 St Mary Whitechapel(wit Mary B.)
John born 2.4.1820-19.11.1822
Eliza 17.6.1821 born 22.5.-9.1.1822 age 1
John 22.12.1822 bapt 12.1
James 11.4.1824 born 17.3.1824 Pollards Row
Mary Ann 16.10.1825 born 22.9.
Eliza 5.11.1828 bapt 28.1.1829

Joseph married Elizabeth Bouvier 18.11.1805
Joseph 81.1.1807
Thomas 4.12.1808 born 11.11
William 12.11.1812/12.12 weaver
Elizabeth 8.9.1816-21.3.1818
Peter 2.4.1820 born 17.1 weaver
James 9.6.1822 born 7.3 rug man
George 9.4.1825 bapt 4.5.1825

on the latter baptisms Joseph  is a rug maker.

A trawl of the Weavers Guild records might help.
There are a couple of settlement certificates for William 1896 and 1900 but they don't really help.They say his age ,silk weaver ,(single 1896 and widower 1900) and last few addresses but it is for the Bethnal Green parish so he must have proved he was entitled to claim there.
Only baptism for children Caroline 30.7.1859 St Mathias BG.

Ciderdrinker

[david standley]

Hi

Thanks very much for this. I had ruled out both of these as my William's parents for a variety of reason but will go back and re-look. As things stand my 'favourites' for his parents are John and Susannah Bartholomew. Both in the 1841 and 51 census for Bethnal Green. In 1851 John is shown as a Chelsea Pensioner born in Dartford. If he was a military man might his children have been baptised when he was on service? However, the Chelsea Pens records dont seem to help me locate a John Bartholomew from Dartford.
I'll keep at it.

David

[ciderdrinker]

Hi
Have you seen the pension record for John Bartholomew of North Fleet Kent
Pte in the 4th Regiment of Infantry
He lost his left leg in America 8.1.1815
He is discharged 24.2.1818 age 32
But obviously that is ten years out.

There is a baptism of a William Charlton Bartholomew  to a John and Sussannah Bartholomew born 2.3.1826 bapt 26th tailor 43 Almondsbury at St Alphage London Wall.
Other children Susaana Charlton 12.9.1819 born June 19th Red Cross Square,Mary Ann 16.6.1822 born 20 May Red Cross Square,Elizabeth 23.5.1824 born 29th  April Almondsbury no 43,Cornelious 29.7.1827 born 3.7.1827,Emma 31.5.1829 born March 13th,Samuel born 23.3.1832 bapt 8 July St Stephen Coleman st no 27 Coleman St,Sarah Sharp 27.4.1834 born 18.3 1834 no 18 London Wall,Joseph 14.6.1835 born 18.3.1835
But they are at no 15 London Wall in 1841.

Moving on to William and Ann.
William seems to be the brother of the Joseph and Elizabeth Bartholomew.
Big family baptism at St Leonards Shoreditch 16.10.1787
Mary age 35 wife of John B of the WH
Children  William born 2.11.1776,Elizabeth 26.2.1778,Joseph 25.7.1779,Rebecca 30.3.1780,Edward 3.9.1784 and Thomas 6.8.1786.

Possible marriage John and Mary Camfield at St Leonards 8.10.1781 wit Thomas Camfield and Esther Smith.
William and Ann Jeffries married 6.8.1797 wit George Limming and George Kemp(possible brother in law married Elizabeth B.16.7.1795) St Leonards Shoreditch.
Children  Elizabeth 19.5.1799 of Charlotte st born 17th March St Leonards Shoreditch,Ann Maria 8.2.1801 of Hoxton born 14 Jan, William 28.11.1802 New Inn Yard born 1st,George 30.9.1804 Ne Inn Yard born Sep 25th ,Jemima 14.2.1806 born 17 th May Chapel st,John and  Alfred 29.10.1809 Chapel St born15.2.1808 and  11th,Mary 17.11.1811 born 27.10 Foundry St ,Joseph and Edward 10.10.1813 born 21.2.1813 and 18.6.1810 Shoreditch, Sarah 29.1.1815 rug maker Chapple st Spitelfields and Matilda 31.12.1820 carpet maker.

It looks like the Alfred age 30 is his son bapt 1809.
Son William marries a Mary and is in Edmonton in 1851 carpet maker ,possible daughter Caroline Sarah bapt St L 29.5.1820 weaver Holywell Lane.

Seems all that family is related.

Thomas and Hannah's marriage I assume you already have in 1818
Children all Whitechapel -Thomas 14.7.1819 pocket book maker Charlotte st ,Ann 26.12.1821and Eliza Catherine 17.9.1824.
It's possible Thomas is another brother of William and Joseph born 1786.
The Thomas ,Ann and Eliza are their children.

You say Thomas's father was a Peter Bartholomew ,have you got the baptism/age? I'm struggling to find a Peter.
Otherwise they could all be the same family except for the John and Sussannah from Dartford.

If you get in touch with the Worshipful company of Weavers and get William's apprenticeship papers c 1837 you should be able to crack it.
http://www.weavers.org.uk/company/contact

Ciderdrinker

[david standley]

Thank you very much for this. Very helpful, particularly the contact details of Weavers Company.

As for Thomas/Hannah and father Peter my logic goes thus.
1. Thomas d 1831 while living at Charlotte St, Whitechapel.
2. Ancestry has the will of a Peter Bartholomew d 1840. Will address given as Charlotte St, Whitechapel.
3. There is a baptism on 29 Jan 1795 at St Olave's, Southwark of a Thomas Bartholomew, son of Peter. I believe that St Olave's is north of the river. Subsequent children baptised at Whitechapel.
4. Peter's daughter Catherine Jemimah is mentioned in his will and she was baptised in 1792 at St George's Southwark.

It looks solid. What do you think?

David